Security at anchor - camera in top of mast

[Cheechako]

At night you need an audible alarm of some sort. You can do that for when someone boards the boat. But for approaching... might be difficult.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

I hope I'm not thread-jacking, but I did the sail from BVIs (Tortola) to St. Croix to Puerto Rico to DR to Haiti to Bahamas to Cuba and finally to Florida. I had a handgun on-board and did feel slightly safer while having it. I did not have any cameras or sensors. After these 4 pages, I'm inclined to get some basic protection technology (IR sensor with light and chime). Will I sail again with a handgun? Depends. Was it useful? Didn't use it once. There were definitely times I was slightly hesitant about my safety (I was sailing solo). Now, with a wife and kids aboard? That would have me reevaluate my entire protection methodology.

I think you are adding to the topic. IMO the hidden risk of a firearm is LEO Risk. You moved through maybe 7 international jurisdictions each with widely different laws. Rhetorical but do you feel you were in 100% compliance at all times?

You may get stopped by a new officer and unintentionally spike his or her bloodstream adrenaline off the chart when you reply "yes I have a weapon onboard". It isn't always immediately clear that your meaning included 'this is only for defensive purposes, not within my reach, and no threat to you.'

Each boater obviously makes their own decision as to what is onboard when they leave the dock. Having said that I strongly recommend looking real, real hard at non-firearm, non-lethal options and how they could meet your petty theft / immediate response needs across the cruising grounds you listed. And maybe watch the SV Delos YouTube as that is BY FAR the most likely scenario you'd encounter.

I'd rather just write off the loss one outboard every ten years than deal with a firearm onboard for even a single cruise. Doubly so if you have children afloat.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

At night you need an audible alarm of some sort. You can do that for when someone boards the boat. But for approaching... might be difficult.

I think this is actually where the discussion gets interesting.

IR image can be analyzed for contrast (?) then the object can be tracked like arpa systems do. Heading and speed data must be incorporated to some extent when the vessel is anchored.

How would you do it?

How has this been implemented in other industries?

b.

[Dane]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

Help us out with your expertise Roy. If you were gong to put one camera at the top of your mast and a recording unit, which units do you suggest? Looking for quality not price...

I was in contact with https://www.securitycamerasdirect.com/, They do NOT have anything that works. They have IR motion detecting cameras, but they will be triggered by waves. This company has no cameras that picks up the temperature signature (which you need to "see" the person approaching.

This is what you need. A thermal imager.

[estarzinger]

Got to comment - for a world cruising boat "simpler is better". When your camera/thermal imagery system breaks (and it will) are you going to sit and wait for parts and repairs? If not then I suggest you might just as well leave it behind to start with.

I'v been round the world twice and never ever felt the need or desire for such a system.

From an engineering stand point it is actually a quite difficult job - detecting a swimmer by IR in the water is a harder task than you might imagine. Water is essentially opaque for (thermal/far) infrared spectrum, so pretty much all you can see is the parts of the body that are above water (perhaps head, some shoulders). It is possible on a DOD budget, but even then difficult to keep working in the real world with a reasonable false positive/negative ratio.

In many of the harbors where you might think you wanted to switch on such a system, there are other anchored boats that will swing pretty close to yours, dinghies that will pass extremely close, birds and some places other big mammals (we had sealions climb in the cockpit in argentina and chile).

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by Dane

I was in contact with https://www.securitycamerasdirect.com/, They do NOT have anything that works. They have IR motion detecting cameras, but they will be triggered by waves. This company has no cameras that picks up the temperature signature (which you need to "see" the person approaching.



This is what you need. A thermal imager.

Got it. If I don't need IR and just want a top mast PTZ camera, available by wifi, any recommendations?

[Flyingriki]

With all the antennas and a windex on the top of the mast, where are you going to put a camera that can see 360 degrees?
I like the old time trick of tacks on the deck at night.....

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by rwidman

OK, that's a poor attempt at sarcasm.

There is no place in the world where there's a 100% guarantee you will not be boarded. For that matter, there's no place in the world where there's a 100% guarantee that someone will not break into your home or car or just rob you while you are walking down the street. There are places in my own city and many others where nobody goes unless they live there. Even those who live there have to stay on certain streets and wear certain colors.

If you want to travel in risky places you must understand the risk and decide if your desire to travel there is worth the risk.

As for what you can do to protect yourself in risky places, it ranges from locking the boat to staying up all night with two people on deck armed with AK47 automatic rifles.

The problem here is, in some countries, your choice of security measures may be illegal just having them in place (carrying a gun, for instance). Actually using them can get you into serious trouble. Shooting someone in a foreign country could easily land you in a nasty jail for the rest of your life. Or worse.

Some of the "solutions" suggested here are pretty bad ideas. Electrifying the boat is an example. Spreading tacks won't work if the intruders are wearing shoes.

There's no easy solution and I can't tell you how to travel around the world while avoiding "bad people". Remember, in many poor places, anyone with his own boat will be considered rich and a target.

Excuse me? Where was the sarcasm? I hear people say "dont sail to dangerous places" thats great but really not realistic, and its also sometimes self righteous. Its a very simplistic view, often by people that dont go far.

Next year i sail to South Africa, huge murder rate per head of population or i can go to europe via the red sea? Which one or do i just stay at home?

How many sail to the Carribean? I felt more aggression there than any where else ive sailed. The lower attilies islands, how far are they from Venezuela?

As mentioned earlier im in the Seychelles. Its a beautiful ,clean, friendly well organized country and as mentioned five days ago i was boarded as we slept and had money and phone taken, we didnt hear a thing. Reason for being hear, english law, very organized, boat repair facilities and out of the cyclone belt.

It gets worse, we were boarded again last night!!!!! This time my girlfriend heard something outside, i grabbed a spotlight to have a look, there was a dreadlocked guy on deck, a physical altercation took place, fortunately i came away not hurt, he ended up in the water.
Just come from the police station for the second time.

Unfortunately in a world where the gap between rich and poor is growing security now needs to be considered.

Now before people judge that have never been here before this just dosent fit the criterea, if it does well so does Rodriguez and Mauritius.

Personally a security door and security hatches are on the list now. While running deck light and cockpit light all night.

[barnakiel]

If the water is opaque to IR while the body (head) is visible, then this could effectively make it easier for recognition using image interpreting tools (contrast detection is one of the easiest to implement). So the camera just grabs the images, maybe 4 per second, and the rest is done by the software in the display (now typically some form of tablet/smartphone). This sounds easy.

What seems less easy is the boat is moving and the head is moving so the software needs to know when the boat is moving and how to be able to sort out some false alarms.

The tacks are not irony. Nor are stanchion wires connected to a small trafo. I know one sailors who has them (presently cruising in Central America, I think Honduras right now).

Have fun tinkering. No time left for living ;-).

b.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Partial quote: "Some of the "solutions" suggested here are pretty bad ideas. Electrifying the boat is an example. Spreading tacks won't work if the intruders are wearing shoes. "

If the intruding swimmers, dingy paddlers, and thieves who are planning to creep silently around the deck think ahead enough to wear their shoes, they're far smarter than most. Ever seen a dingy that doesn't accept water? Ever tried to creep quietly in water filled gumboots?

As a result of this thread, when I'm cruising again I'll certainly have a few boxes of tacks. some removable security signs and more secure hatches for those particular times or anchorages. If I can afford 2 x IR WiFi camera, then that would be forth on the list. And a $ 15 IR doorbell seems like something to keep in storage with the rest of it for those particular times.

[barnakiel]

Yes. Bad solutions. Just that they exist and we talk. Not recommended, not to be used for navigation.

Very likely the person that get electrified by the fence is the owner during his morning rituals ;-))))

But he does have it.

Rather than electrocute them vandals ;-) one could have an alarm rigged to the fence. But this is a very late warning.

Before you are awake, someone is already back ashore, with your fender, line or boathook ;-)

b.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by Flyingriki

With all the antennas and a windex on the top of the mast, where are you going to put a camera that can see 360 degrees?
I like the old time trick of tacks on the deck at night.....

I'm thinking a radar mount but attached to the bottom side of the bracket. Not quite 360 coverage.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Someone already mentioned coral-spotting, but it's taken 4 pages for someone to mention how useful a look-down camera could be for docking.

Wouldn't the skipper be better served watching the dock and knowing where his boat is rather than watching a screen? Or is this just more and better info?

I had a hot docking at a fuel stop the other day, wind against tide, and the very last thing I needed to do was to take my eyes off the side of the boat and the dock. My son said, "Man, you came in real hot there." I said, "We had to because of the conditions - wind one way, strong current the other." And he and I had sailed our boat from SF to Vancouver Island last summer, docking almost every night, so he knew about this stuff.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Excuse me? Where was the sarcasm? I hear people say "dont sail to dangerous places" thats great but really not realistic, and its also sometimes self righteous. Its a very simplistic view, often by people that dont go far.

Next year i sail to South Africa, huge murder rate per head of population or i can go to europe via the red sea? Which one or do i just stay at home?

How many sail to the Carribean? I felt more aggression there than any where else ive sailed. The lower attilies islands, how far are they from Venezuela?

As mentioned earlier im in the Seychelles. Its a beautiful ,clean, friendly well organized country and as mentioned five days ago i was boarded as we slept and had money and phone taken, we didnt hear a thing. Reason for being hear, english law, very organized, boat repair facilities and out of the cyclone belt.

It gets worse, we were boarded again last night!!!!! This time my girlfriend heard something outside, i grabbed a spotlight to have a look, there was a dreadlocked guy on deck, a physical altercation took place, fortunately i came away not hurt, he ended up in the water.
Just come from the police station for the second time.

Unfortunately in a world where the gap between rich and poor is growing security now needs to be considered.

Now before people judge that have never been here before this just dosent fit the criterea, if it does well so does Rodriguez and Mauritius.

Personally a security door and security hatches are on the list now. While running deck light and cockpit light all night.

When someone suggests not going to dangerous places, they are just being realistic. The best possible "security system" is to limit your exposure to dangerous places and situations.

If you chose to expose your self to dangerous situations, the risk is on you. So you had a potential intruder and you were able to push him into the water. Fine, but someday you will meet your match and we'll never hear from you again. You will not always be the biggest and baddest guy in the fight. And you can't be sure this guy won't come back again but this time with a bunch of his buddies or a gun.

[Privilege]

As a serving police officer it amuses me to hear people say things like 'avoid places where crime occurs'. If these people can let me know where the criminals are going to be occurring, I'll make sure that we're waiting for them!
Seriously though, the point of this thread is the use of modern electronic aids to reduce the chances of becoming a victim. We are not talking about full piracy here, however thefts from boats is a frequent occurrence no matter where you are in the world. Security systems can be so cheap these days that having electronic security for a cruiser seems logical. In my experience, the most effective deterrent is having a loud alarm (assuming that having a large dog on board is not always practical). I have a number of systems on my boat including a very loud alarm. Prior to that kicking in, the first system is a motion detector. It points into my boat to the entrance doors and is connected wirelessly to a control panel. The control panel chimes when motion is detected but also has a 1amp output port. This is connected to a relay which arms lights as well as a 'warn away' alarm which I picked up on eBay for $50. It's connected to my outdoor speakers. It's simple, effective, simple enough for DIY and a great first-step deterrent for a total cost of around $200.
I'm sorry to the OP as I have no input in relation to mast-mounted cameras other than to say that in my experience, cameras are great at identifying criminals but do not offer much of a deterrent.