Security at anchor - camera in top of mast

[Dane]

Originally Posted by gekko15

I'm afraid that I can't really speak from a boat owner’s point of view but I did work in electronic security until recently. I hope to own my own boat at some stage and have given the idea of security some thought. Here is what I would suggest at this stage, please feel free to ask me any further questions.

Firstly, the equipment I would use is not cheap but it is quite rugged and has been used in various extreme scenarios like marinas. Secondly getting a 360° view will be expensive and will require multiple cameras.

I would install a German camera system (PM me for brand name) with an optical and thermal module. The optical module can work down to 0.02 lux. This gives you the flexibility of having both an optical, or traditional camera view in addition to the thermal heat sensitive view. The optical module can be purchased in various viewing angles from 8° to 180° and the thermal modules range from 17° to 45°.

With the German cameras you can set up various detection zones and actions which allows for the amount of false alarms to be reduced.

Assuming that that money were no object I would install 4 of these cameras to cover the boat perimeter, then I would set them up to have different detection levels in terms of distance from the mast. If an object moved into the first perimeter you could turn on some lights (the cameras have outputs for that). If the object moved through to the second perimeter you could trigger the speaker on the camera to play a recording and then lastly if the object came into the 3rd perimeter zone you could trigger an alarm in the cabin that would wake you.

There aren't many systems that I know of that allow you to use sequential logic on events for camera operations. Further this system is IP based, meaning it uses standard computer networks and network cable. You could easily view the footage on a laptop, tablet or smartphone.

I'm unsure about the Community Rules and don't want to advertise for the company, I have no relation to them other than having used their products and having done training on the product. If you would like to know the name of the company please PM me.

In terms of cost I assume a full system to be in the order of $10,000+ just for materials, installation and programming would be extra. It isn't cheap but I think it will get you the closest to having a camera monitored perimeter with a reduced chance of false alarms.

Thanks a lot! I will PM you. Whereas the indicated costs may be prohibitive for me, it is a technical starting point to know what is out there!

[CaptTom]

I've used security cameras, and IR-activated lights, shoreside. Never aboard. This advice is worth what you paid for it:

My gut tells me that cameras with motion-detection software are going to give you almost constant false alarms. There might be ultra-high-end units that I'm not familiar with, but if cost is an issue, it's probably best to ignore that option.

I'm a little more intrigued with the idea of IR detection. Basically even the cheapest units (home outdoor lighting) are very good at distinguishing, say, leaves blowing in the wind from warm-bodied people and large animals. Assuming the surface of the sea, and anything inanimate floating in it, are about the same temperature, it seems very possible to trigger an alert when something as big as a person (or seal, or porpoise) approaches.

If that turns on some LED deck lights, it might achieve your goal of getting bad guys to reconsider, without offending any good guys (or critters) who might be passing by. Probably local conditions will dictate whether or not you want to be woken up every time it triggers.

[Stu Jackson]

I spoke to a friend yesterday after he pulled back into his slip after a month and a half cruise. He mentioned a camera he got that he sets up in his cockpit that has great resolution, takes three photographs and then backs up a minute and takes a video! All of this gets sent to him on any device he chooses by a wifi connection. Sorry I didn't get a model # and brand name. I believe it is motion detection.

Point being, the technology IS out there. Oh, and he said he spent $70 on the camera, don't know if it included the software.

Good luck, happy hunting.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dane

(...) to detect approaching people, who could be swimming or in a small dinghy? (...)

I think your idea of a camera (or better cameras) on the mast top (or spreaders/arch) is very good and imho it will work. I had such cameras on most yachts I worked for.

However, the short phrase I dared to quote sounds like you also may want to consult a fear/fobia management specialist.

Are you afraid of swimmers and/or people in small dinghies? Have you had any specific misadventure that started your fear?

To sum up my short post, get the cameras, they work, and do not worry too much about swimmers or dinghy people UNLESS YOU LIVE IN A PLACE KNOWN FOR COMMON AND DANGEROUS SHORE/BOAT CRIMES.

Cheers,
b.

[Dane]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I think your idea of a camera (or better cameras) on the mast top (or spreaders/arch) is very good and imho it will work. I had such cameras on most yachts I worked for.

However, the short phrase I dared to quote sounds like you also may want to consult a fear/fobia management specialist.

Are you afraid of swimmers and/or people in small dinghies? Have you had any specific misadventure that started your fear?

To sum up my short post, get the cameras, they work, and do not worry too much about swimmers or dinghy people UNLESS YOU LIVE IN A PLACE KNOWN FOR COMMON AND DANGEROUS SHORE/BOAT CRIMES.

Cheers,
b.

Hi there Barnakiel - man of 17.000 posts...

Please do not hold back if you have a make and model of the camera that work (I expect you read enough to understand the function needed of the camera?). What I have so far is very expensive equipment (as I expected), but I am still hoping..

Nice of you to be concerned with my mental habitus. I can read from other posts, that others apparently may feel the same. However, they dont put it as bluntly as you do. So sweet..

So a little about me. I sailed my family - wife and two small kids - from Denmark to the Caribbean and back in 2009-10. We slept like babies at anchor - no security and open hatches. We did not go to Venezuela - not more south than Tobago. We passed St Vincent that had a challenged record regrading security. I read Noonsite and other sources to access the security situation for where we go.

I get the feeling that not all of the generous contributors in the thread are sailing far away from their home waters. I can say that my home waters are stupidly safe. My guess is that there has never in history been a boarding of an anchored cruising yacht, with people sleeping in it, and for sure never an incident with violence involved. Our not all that far away retirement plans involves circumnavigation(s). And quite frankly, you need to get educated if you think that is completely safe. Some places there is a risk involved, even when you do not visit the worst places.

SO I AM TAKING PRECAUTIONS THROUGH USE OF GOOD SENSE AND A BIT OF TECHNOLOGY TO LOWER RISKS.

.. It is beyond me why that is such a strange thing to consider doing.

... When the light turns on I am not flying out of my bunk to shoot at someone. I am a DANE for crying out loud (We don't like guns like "those crazy Americans" - no offense, but that is how all Danes look at this. You are more than welcome to call us crazy for our view. And yes yes, I know not all Americans likes guns. But, NO Danes like guns). Im am more likely to ask in a surprised way if they are coming over for a beer (expecting them to bugger off)..

I continue to be interested in technical facts, experience, price ideas and good relevant contributions, that will bring me and others interested in the described system closer to understanding the possibilities.

Thank you,
Dane

[Cherod]

Dane , I think most of us understand where you are coming from
, both understand and sympathise .

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Ok, so what if you want to circumnavigate? How do you only go to 100℅ guaranteed never to be boarded type places, please show me this route, i want to go that way.

OK, that's a poor attempt at sarcasm.

There is no place in the world where there's a 100% guarantee you will not be boarded. For that matter, there's no place in the world where there's a 100% guarantee that someone will not break into your home or car or just rob you while you are walking down the street. There are places in my own city and many others where nobody goes unless they live there. Even those who live there have to stay on certain streets and wear certain colors.

If you want to travel in risky places you must understand the risk and decide if your desire to travel there is worth the risk.

As for what you can do to protect yourself in risky places, it ranges from locking the boat to staying up all night with two people on deck armed with AK47 automatic rifles.

The problem here is, in some countries, your choice of security measures may be illegal just having them in place (carrying a gun, for instance). Actually using them can get you into serious trouble. Shooting someone in a foreign country could easily land you in a nasty jail for the rest of your life. Or worse.

Some of the "solutions" suggested here are pretty bad ideas. Electrifying the boat is an example. Spreading tacks won't work if the intruders are wearing shoes.

There's no easy solution and I can't tell you how to travel around the world while avoiding "bad people". Remember, in many poor places, anyone with his own boat will be considered rich and a target.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Thinking cameras contribute to security is a mistake. Cameras do not stop thieves or people who intend to harm you. All a camera does is give you a video of people carrying your stuff off. Unless you recognize the people, it's not going to be worth the cost of installing them.

While they do have their limits, Cameras form a deterrent for thieves who typically don't want to get caught. Just ask SV Delos. The episode is worth watching on YouTube.

These are small, tight island communities. If you say you were robbed at anchor they probably already have a 1-2 solid suspects even if they don't tell you. If you, or anyone on the island, recognizes the guy on camera well yeah he's going to get caught.

Delos chased the thief down several days later and the camera evidence, which transcends the spoken word in all cultures, was key to the outcome.

[rwidman]

Cameras take pictures. Video cameras take videos. Motion activated cameras take pictures or videos when they sense motion. I posted it before and I'll post it again; Pictures and videos don't stop crime or criminals and that photo or video of people you don't know carrying away your possessions isn't going to be of much use.

What you need is a motion sensing alarm. To minimize false alarms, you want sensors with an adjustable range or a fixed range of, perhaps fifty feet. Something like what is being used in newer cars for automatic braking.

You will need several, enough to cover all directions. The actual alarm is up to you. Make it loud enough for the potential intruders to hear or just loud enough to wake you. Turning on lights is optional as well.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dane

Hi there Barnakiel - man of 17.000 posts...

Please do not hold back if you have a make and model of the camera that work (I expect you read enough to understand the function needed of the camera?). What I have so far is very expensive equipment (as I expected), but I am still hoping..

Nice of you to be concerned with my mental habitus. I can read from other posts, that others apparently may feel the same. However, they dont put it as bluntly as you do. So sweet..

So a little about me. I sailed my family - wife and two small kids - from Denmark to the Caribbean and back in 2009-10. We slept like babies at anchor - no security and open hatches. We did not go to Venezuela - not more south than Tobago. We passed St Vincent that had a challenged record regrading security. I read Noonsite and other sources to access the security situation for where we go.

I get the feeling that not all of the generous contributors in the thread are sailing far away from their home waters. I can say that my home waters are stupidly safe. My guess is that there has never in history been a boarding of an anchored cruising yacht, with people sleeping in it, and for sure never an incident with violence involved. Our not all that far away retirement plans involves circumnavigation(s). And quite frankly, you need to get educated if you think that is completely safe. Some places there is a risk involved, even when you do not visit the worst places.

SO I AM TAKING PRECAUTIONS THROUGH USE OF GOOD SENSE AND A BIT OF TECHNOLOGY TO LOWER RISKS.

.. It is beyond me why that is such a strange thing to consider doing.

... When the light turns on I am not flying out of my bunk to shoot at someone. I am a DANE for crying out loud (We don't like guns like "those crazy Americans" - no offense, but that is how all Danes look at this. You are more than welcome to call us crazy for our view. And yes yes, I know not all Americans likes guns. But, NO Danes like guns). Im am more likely to ask in a surprised way if they are coming over for a beer (expecting them to bugger off)..

I continue to be interested in technical facts, experience, price ideas and good relevant contributions, that will bring me and others interested in the described system closer to understanding the possibilities.

Thank you,
Dane

Dane,

I am not concerned with your (your words, not mine) mental whatever (the other word escapes me, I am not that literate, but I promise to check it in a dictionary in about 5 minutes). Habitus sounds a bit like habitat, but clearly it is quite unlike.

The sailing world is full of all kinds of people, some fearful, some fearless (my bet: they are just pretending), some mental (statistically proven). I am the fearful one, I know it. I do not assume anyone is mental (much as some of my very close sailing friends show all symptoms). To me, the sailing world does not have to be full of identical, sound, balanced individuals. I like variety. And some dose of madness makes this lifestyle all that more fancy.

Well. The anecdotes apart, I can tell you only one thing then that I actually did sail around the world (and then a good bit more) and we never got attacked or boarded by criminals. We were lucky, we planned, we had no cameras (and of course, NO GUNS).

You must chose the places where you go to or stop wisely. This is sure. Same rule as always: do not go to the bad spots (rather than go to them, fully armed in technology, with a false belief that the technology will do anything for you).

But there is no need for too much extra fear of swimmers of people in dinghies. You must be aware that dinghies are the regular every-day way to commute to the shore in any anchorage location and so one would 'have to be afraid' basically as soon as you leave the marina and dock reality of the Northern Europe (or any other place where anchorages are not the predominant way of spending time in your boat).

So, my own take is: avoid bad spots, keep your eyes and ears wide open and stop expecting to get killed every five minutes. If I had much fear of people in dinghies or swimmers doing any harm to me, I would simply not go sailing. For nobody keeps eye on that camera while you sleep.

But the above has nothing to do with the fact that cameras on the mast or spreaders (or elsewhere) are a good idea that works. And do not hide them. Clearly visible ones are a better choice, just as the ones in every European street / marina / parking lot. Deck lights at night work too. Dark characters avoid well lit places.

On the most recent boat I worked, the cameras were integrated into Raymarine nav system and so I am strongly inclined to think the cameras themselves were part of the Ray package. They worked like a dream and never failed (I worked for that boat over 8 years). I could control the spreader one while the deck level ones were fixed. The spreader one had zoom option. All had IR option.

On another boat where I worked from 2009 till about 2011, the cameras were not integrated into the bridge. They had independent small screens - one at the nav, one in owners' cabin and one in skippers cabin. I cannot recall the name but I am 100% positive they were car industry grade as I have seen identical displays in cars at that time. No zoom and no IR back then on them. Maybe today you can get IR options on them too.

I am linking here to kit that looks nearly identical we had in that boat:
https://www.dometic.com/en/se/produc...r-view-systems

Check if there is good waterproofing on them. I did not check it.

So I modify my original advice. Now I say: avoid the bad spots, stop worrying about people in the dinghies or swimmers, get the cameras.

In our own boat (which is only 8m long) cameras do not work (the boat rolls to much) and so we do not have them. But they were fun to have on the big boats and a nice way to control who is getting onboard in the marinas, as well as to check where all crew are (we were 3 of us plus the owners on the bigger boat, with 2 kids).

Have fun sailing and toying with technology. I do.

Cheers,
barnakiel

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I'm a little more intrigued with the idea of IR detection. Basically even the cheapest units (home outdoor lighting) are very good at distinguishing, say, leaves blowing in the wind from warm-bodied people and large animals. Assuming the surface of the sea, and anything inanimate floating in it, are about the same temperature, it seems very possible to trigger an alert when something as big as a person (or seal, or porpoise) approaches.

If that turns on some LED deck lights, it might achieve your goal of getting bad guys to reconsider, without offending any good guys (or critters) who might be passing by. Probably local conditions will dictate whether or not you want to be woken up every time it triggers.

I think this is the best advice on here. 99% of these crimes are petty crimes of opportunity. If your boat lights up upon approach, they will move to an easier target. IR is a great way to prevent a ton of false alarms, and lights, unlike cameras, are great deterrents.

That said, mast-mounted cameras are getting cheaper and it could be nice to see from your bed if that illuminated object is a seal or a local before heading to the cockpit. These cameras also do great double duty when docking and even shallow water navigating.

[Roy M]

I have some direct experience in security cameras, having installed high end systems for my yacht club, friends and boat owners. They work. Good security is not cheap. They work in horrible weather, zero light (generating an infrared beam that sees several hundreds of feet). They record for several weeks, with many multiple cameras, at high enough resolution that the District Attorney smiles when we hand them a DVD of an episode. Bad boys do not like these systems, are astonishingly ignorant of their power, and end up surprised and taken out of action for a while. i won't comment on my own protection, other to say I love being able to wake up in the middle of the night to sweep the anchorage, return home at the end of the day to see what's been happening in the neighborhood, and to confirm that some folks working on or near my boat are legit. It's all legal, and it helps our local harbor police and security forces be more effective should things be going on in our port that require diligence.

My favorite supplier is Security Cameras Direct, in Texas (https://www.securitycamerasdirect.co...SAAEgI0XPD_BwE). Skim through the online catalog. Call this company for questions on your particular needs. Much of this equipment is powered by 12 volts DC, and is plug and play. Depending on your needs you can install passive single cameras, connect as many as you might need now (and in the future). You can mount them on your car (nothing beats a clip of someone crashing into you or engaging in aggressive behavior), setting up an array of three cameras to show 360 degree views, you can even remotely operate a camera that pans, tilts and zooms in, in true color during the day, or high resolution black and white when night falls and the creepy denizens emerge from their vagrant boats visiting the anchorage for the weekend. They are our primary targets at the moment.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Thalas

These cameras also do great double duty when docking and even shallow water navigating.

Someone already mentioned coral-spotting, but it's taken 4 pages for someone to mention how useful a look-down camera could be for docking.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I hope I'm not thread-jacking, but I did the sail from BVIs (Tortola) to St. Croix to Puerto Rico to DR to Haiti to Bahamas to Cuba and finally to Florida. I had a handgun on-board and did feel slightly safer while having it. I did not have any cameras or sensors. After these 4 pages, I'm inclined to get some basic protection technology (IR sensor with light and chime). Will I sail again with a handgun? Depends. Was it useful? Didn't use it once. There were definitely times I was slightly hesitant about my safety (I was sailing solo). Now, with a wife and kids aboard? That would have me reevaluate my entire protection methodology.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by Roy M

I have some direct experience in security cameras, having installed high end systems for my yacht club, friends and boat owners. They work. Good security is not cheap. They work in horrible weather, zero light (generating an infrared beam that sees several hundreds of feet).

My favorite supplier is Security Cameras Direct, in Texas (https://www.securitycamerasdirect.co...SAAEgI0XPD_BwE).

Help us out with your expertise Roy. If you were gong to put one camera at the top of your mast and a recording unit, which units do you suggest? Looking for quality not price...