Marine insurance, going naked.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by atmartin

Everything! Really? I suppose that only a person's property has value? Health, education, job training. That's all chaff?



As other posters brought up, your liability coverage won't protect you from criminal negligence in the case of injury/death. You can't pay your way out of all responsibility.

Nobody except you is talking about using insurance as protection against fraud. You're only covered after an incident by your own insurance company if you comply with all the terms of the policy, which include following the applicable laws. But it can cover you even if you're 100% at fault.

And of course "everything" in the insurance context means the bits of a life that have financial value. Like a home, or a boat, or retirement savings, etc. If none of those, no need for insurance. But a big enough incident could take away all your financial assets, including part of your future income.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Umm, no, third party insurance is NOT part of vehicle registration in NZ. Drive without it if you have nothing to lose, but otherwise you are a fool to drive without it.

I do agree that in general the NZ system is better than the lawyered-up alternatives, but there are lots of people who have fights with ACC because it is not reasonably compensating them after an accident.

I was not clear. Third party insurance is IS part of vehicle registration in NZ as far as injury to people goes. Property damage is not covered - but this is more easily dealt with without litigation.

[oldjags]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

Mine? We're a UK flagged yacht, insured with Pantaenius

Thanks. That's the 2nd reference to Pantaenius on this thread. Now, I wonder if they offer coverage here in Panama. I found their website, and they list their office in Spain covers all of South America.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

But accident compensation corporation premiums are.

Correct, but that only covers people's injuries, not their property and not their possible reduction in earning capacity. The other person may not hire a lawyer to come after you (but could), but ACC certainly will come after you with their own lawyers. As will the other person's insurance company, if they have one. In that case, it is nicer to have your own insurance company's lawyer standing between you and them. Of course, they represent the insurance company, but it still helps.

Back to the original question of insuring a boat while cruising, consider the two cats that recently ran into reefs. One family will likely be fully covered for their loss, while the other family is relying on gofundme and future income. And I don't think either took more or less risks because of having coverage or not.

But unless you owe money on your boat, as others have pointed out the level of risk of ocean cruising is likely low enough that it becomes the same sort of decision as whether to carry a life raft.

I'm certainly debating whether to keep our life raft - it's a fair bit of money to recertify and other than fire I can't think of another reason to have one.

[atmartin]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Nobody except you is talking about using insurance as protection against fraud. You're only covered after an incident by your own insurance company if you comply with all the terms of the policy, which include following the applicable laws.

I don't think we're in disagreement on this.

My comment was about criminal negligence in reference to one of rwidman's doomsday scenarios, not fraud:

Originally Posted by rwidman

Liability isn't just running into another boat and sinking it. Run over a kayak and kill the operator and see where you stand.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by atmartin

I don't think we're in disagreement on this.



My comment was about criminal negligence in reference to one of rwidman's doomsday scenarios, not fraud:

Fair enough. But you are still covered by liability insurance even if you are at fault IN AN ACCIDENT. But if you become criminally at fault - then you're on your own. AFAIK, there is no insurance for anything criminal, other than maybe lots of money to pay off the prosecutors.

[Robert Tilbury]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Where I live we have no need of health insurance (free medical cover for all), we have no need of personal liability insurance (free coverage against all personal injuries); I didn't say it was bad in your country, just different, so please don't assume the whole world is the same.

Agree %100 well said .

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by fxykty

...I'm certainly debating whether to keep our life raft - it's a fair bit of money to recertify and other than fire I can't think of another reason to have one.

Interesting comparison. You seem to have three choices though, as a foreign-registered yacht down here - recertify it; toss it; carry it without recertification. I've read of liferafts being tested and found fully operational when inflated after 25 years but have no first-hand experience.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Looking at a smallish 24' glass sailboat for the wife to play with, something she can sail singlehand and get more confident with her boat handling skills.

Nice little boat, easy outboard, safe and fun to sail.

We have our own mooring and plenty of places to anchor, not thinking of racing, cost is low and probably will inspect it but no formal survey. Can afford to write it off if anything happens.

For the first time I am seriously considering going without insurance. I have rung around a few insurers and they all want comprehensive, not liability coverage. They have a range of pretty ludicrous conditions to insure a moored boat. Interestingly, no problems insuring her current boat which is a sports sailboat on a trailer, the problem seems to be boats older than 15 years on a mooring.

We live in Australia, so not quite as litigious as the US. Anyone out there going without any insurance? Am I missing anything?

Gosh, what a can of worms you opened there. :^)

As per JPA Cate, I am with Pantanius (spelling?) with third party only. Used to be with Trident Marine, again third party only. Both were good, only moved to Pantanius because they were slightly cheaper.

Used to be insured with RAA (South Australian version of RACV, NRMA, etc) but they only did up to 30 feet so had to change with the last boat upgrade.

Totally agree with everyone who says you need third party liability. For all the usual reasons, which are, put simply, there are millions upon millions of dollars of infrastructure and private property clustered around your boat, all just waiting for some stupid trivial thing to go wrong. It would be different if multi-millionaires did not insist on parking their squillion dollar boats on the same waterway that I want to sail on, and if councils would not insist on building multi million dollar public facilities on the water, but these things happen, and even a 12 foot tinny with and outboard can rack up a repair bill that would cause you to lose everything you own.

Hang in there, you'll find insurance. And from memory, insuring our Austral 20 here in South Australia cost me less than insuring my 20 year old car when it came to 3rd party. (I only wish I could say the same for the current boat)

Matt

[olaf hart]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Interesting comparison. You seem to have three choices though, as a foreign-registered yacht down here - recertify it; toss it; carry it without recertification. I've read of liferafts being tested and found fully operational when inflated after 25 years but have no first-hand experience.

Fourth option is to unpack, inflate, leave up for a week, check weight of inflation bottle, repack emergency supplies, and repack the raft.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Actually thats relevant. How big is Rwidman's anchor ??

I've heard that it's very large.... but hangs to the left. Sorry Rwidman, that's a joke. Can we all be friends here?? Life is short. Some of us checking out soon. there's no insurance where we're headed.

[Mossy Man]

As one of the guys said try NRMA. I have my 64 year old boat on a mooring insured with them for liability. All done over the phone

[kimtrang]

Originally Posted by Mossy Man

As one of the guys said try NRMA. I have my 64 year old boat on a mooring insured with them for liability. All done over the phone

Thanks for that. I'll try them. I already have car insurance with them.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Where I live we have no need of health insurance (free medical cover for all), we have no need of personal liability insurance (free coverage against all personal injuries); I didn't say it was bad in your country, just different, so please don't assume the whole world is the same.

Ok.

Now suppose your boat is on the hard and you are working on your boat. And through bad luck or clumsiness on your part you set of a chain of events that results in the loss of all boats in that yard.

In "your country" who will compensate the owners of all those boats?

[Bor the Wolf]

It turns out that my standard liability insurance also covers sailing with the exception of participating in regattas and speed boats (power boats that are able to go faster than 12 km/h). Maybe you should check your current insurances before buying a "sailing" liability insurance?