Marine insurance, going naked.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I always love all this moralizing that comes out of these insurance threads. Insurance is one way to mitigate risk. It’s not the only way, and in many cases, it may not be the best way. But some people can’t resist putting down others who choose a different approach.

Quite frankly, I’d rather be down wind of a guy who has no insurance, but has his life tied up in the floating home. I would believe this person has more likely taken the time, money and effort to make his/her boat as safe and sound as reasonably possible compared to the person who’s simply relying on insurance to cover his/her hinee.

BTW, the comparison to driving a car is like comparing apples to dynamite. By any measure, boating is vastly safer than driving a car. And cruising-style boats are safer than safe. All these doomsday ‘what-if’ scenarios are childish mind games. “What if a meteor falls on you?? You’re foolish not to have meteor insurance!!” What utter BS…

Liability insurance is relatively cheap, but as my recent insurance survey revealed, is not that easy to get. Few insurance companies offer it, and even fewer brokers want to sell it. My guess as to why is b/c they don’t make much from it. And why is it so cheap?? Because the real risks involved are very small.

Thankyou for some sanity !! There are still many boats here in Australia that are not insured and owners that are responsible, doubt that many are in marinas though as it is required. On moorings things are different.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by atmartin

...My 100K liability car insurance isn't going to cover me if I hit a Rolls Royce. When the driver claims pain and suffering, I'm in real trouble. Your 2 million boat liability is no guarantee either.

Well said. Insurance is a fine way to mitigate risk. It’s not the only way, and it’s not the best way for all people in all circumstances.

So let me ask those of you who insult the uninsured as “foolish": you’ve said that it’s not hard to incur millions in damages through any number of hypotheticals that you like to pose … so, does this make you a fool for any liability expense over your current limit? All you’ve done is set the bar at your current arbitrary $ figure, but if your boat causes the marina to burn down, or you back into a multi-million dollar yacht, you’re just as much the fool as someone without insurance.

Insurance is one way of mitigating risk. Unless resources are unlimited, people have to make rational choices about risk and cost-benefit. The REAL risk of travelling in a cruising-style boat is exceedingly small. The REAL stats are available to anyone who cares to look for them. If someone with limited money decides it’s better to invest in a bigger anchor and new chain rather than give it to an insurance company, I would probably commend their choice.

[danielamartindm]

Waive the hull insurance, but do get liability. It isn't costly, and even if AUstralia IS less litigious than America, things happen and we're all only human. A civil suit for injuries, death, or damages could wipe you out.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by fxykty

According to your profile you are in NZ. So am I, though originally from Canada...

No doubt you've found a cross-section of viewpoints here - some who insure, some who don't, some have health cover, some don't, some that insure their cars, some don't - but none so rude as to say "You are a fool" for stepping out your front door without insurance! It's simply a choice we all make.

Insurance is a two-edge sword - full insurance and drivers can get careless and drive too fast; uninsured and some of us become the most careful, cautious, defensive drivers on the road; wife and I never had an accident in a combined sixty years of driving here (saved a small fortune in premiums, as each vehicle here requires additional insurance). Health insurance would certainly allow you to jump to the front of the health queue, pushing operations for those less fortunate further down the waiting list - not my idea of being a good citizen, but hey, all viewpoints accepted here. I know of one fully insured Chch resident who has waited seven years for his insurance company to pay out - some of those foreign-owned insurance companies are no better than crooks. Sometimes it's better to self-insure, sometimes not, but no one is a "fool" for making that conscious decision.

[oldjags]

I have tried, off and on, to get liability insurance here in Panama, and can't find anyone interested in selling it. I needed to have the boat pulled out of the water for a keel repair, and the marina wouldn't touch it without insurance.

I since found the Balboa Yacht Club didn't require it, so I hauled out there, and quit looking. But the one quote I did get was ridiculous. Something like $1200 for a policy that only covered $50,000 max. They said the liability coverage could not exceed the value of my boat, so if I wanted $1,000,000 of liability, I also had to pay for $1,000,000 of coverage for my own boat!

Since my boat is only worth about $50,000, I thought that was crazy, since there's no way they would have paid me $1,000,000 if something happened to my boat.

I would still like to find a reasonable liability-only policy, as I'd hate to lose my house if I accidentally sink someone's boat.

[Archaeologistt]

Pantaenius will insure your boat in Australia for $10 million liability for about $450-

[Big Macca]

Olaf, do yourself a favour and go and see an insurance broker. It won't cost you a cent (the insurer will pay the broker commission) and you can get access to a fairly wide range of managing general agencies that are underwritten by the Lloyd's market and other insurers. You should be able to get what you want.

If you can afford most of the risk, take a big deductible (the amount you'll pay yourself before the insurance cover kicks in). That way the premium stays low but you're still protected against the risk of your beloved running into a massive stinkboat and sinking it.

[DumnMad]

Some pretty blind condemnation of others here.

NZ took a look at the US litigation industry and decided there was a better way. We have compulsary ACC(Accident compensation) as part of our income tax and third party insurance written into our vehicle registration fees. The idea is to get on with the job of fixing people up without involving the vulture industry.
As a nation we collectively take care of those unfortunately caught up in accidents. We don't run to lawyers to get out of responsibility or to claim an unfair compensation.
The system is not flawless but is a lot better than most others.

[rwidman]

If you own anything of value, you are a fool to not have liability insurance on your boat, car , home or business. You could lose everything.

If you are a worthless bum, living from hand to mouth and owning nothing, your only need for liability insurance is your sense of responsibility for your actions.

Don't mind harming someone else and just walking away? Don't need liability insurance.

BTW: Liability isn't just running into another boat and sinking it. Run over a kayak and kill the operator and see where you stand. Let your own boat sink and have a fuel spill and see where you stand. Invite someone onto your boat and they fall off and drown, see where you stand.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by rwidman

If you own anything of value, you are a fool to not have liability insurance on your boat, car , home or business. You could lose everything.

If you are a worthless bum, living from hand to mouth and owning nothing, your only need for liability insurance is your sense of responsibility for your actions.

Don't mind harming someone else and just walking away? Don't need liability insurance.

BTW: Liability isn't just running into another boat and sinking it. Run over a kayak and kill the operator and see where you stand. Let your own boat sink and have a fuel spill and see where you stand. Invite someone onto your boat and they fall off and drown, see where you stand.

Am I a fool for only carrying the minimum liability insurance as required by the marina I'm in?

Where do you draw the line?

[hafa]

Methinks rwidman owns an insurance company. Maybe he will sell me liability insurance, as no other company will sell it here, with the exception of Lloyd's of London, which wants US$10,000 per month...

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Don't mind harming someone else and just walking away? Don't need liability insurance.

BTW: Liability isn't just running into another boat and sinking it. Run over a kayak and kill the operator and see where you stand. Let your own boat sink and have a fuel spill and see where you stand. Invite someone onto your boat and they fall off and drown, see where you stand.

US is fascinating. Does liability insurance cover you from prosecution for reckless behaviour ?

[olaf hart]

Originally Posted by Big Macca

Olaf, do yourself a favour and go and see an insurance broker. It won't cost you a cent (the insurer will pay the broker commission) and you can get access to a fairly wide range of managing general agencies that are underwritten by the Lloyd's market and other insurers. You should be able to get what you want.

If you can afford most of the risk, take a big deductible (the amount you'll pay yourself before the insurance cover kicks in). That way the premium stays low but you're still protected against the risk of your beloved running into a massive stinkboat and sinking it.

I use a broker for our main boat, he says he doesn't do liability only. I will check with other insurers though.

A couple of good leads from some of the Oz posters, thank you.

Interesting how easy it is to start a fight on this topic, may ask about anchors next.

Generally we self insure, but the problem is the more assets we have, the more it makes sense to have liability only insurance.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rwidman

If you own anything of value, you are a fool to not have liability insurance on your boat, car , home or business. You could lose everything.

If you are a worthless bum, living from hand to mouth and owning nothing, your only need for liability insurance is your sense of responsibility for your actions.

Don't mind harming someone else and just walking away? Don't need liability insurance.

BTW: Liability isn't just running into another boat and sinking it. Run over a kayak and kill the operator and see where you stand. Let your own boat sink and have a fuel spill and see where you stand. Invite someone onto your boat and they fall off and drown, see where you stand.

Ron, you should lift your head out of your fear-driven bunker and look at the real world. It’s really not as scary as you think it is. Nor is it as black and white as your simplistic world-view paints it.

Seriously, why do you insist on insulting and demeaning everyone who thinks differently than you? You realize that you can present your own perspective without being a jerk. Might take a little more time and thought, but I bet you can do it… maybe.

This is a global community. Not everyone lives in your space. Maybe insurance is necessary for your litigious-filled area. Most of the rest of the world is more rational about it all.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by rwidman

...If you are a worthless bum, ...

Depends which part of the planet you're standing on - each country is different, thank goodness Are you really calling those poor fishermen of the Red Sea, Sri Lanka, etc, etc, worthless b**s just because they never saw a lawyer in a fine suit, never heard of insurance? That's the other extreme from the US of A, but it in no way reduces the extremity of either country. Most of us sit somewhere in the middle of those two "extremes".