Marine insurance, going naked.

[oldjags]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Am I a fool for only carrying the minimum liability insurance as required by the marina I'm in?

Where do you draw the line?

One thing insurance gets you is an attorney if something happens. The insurance attorney is not really looking out for your interests as much as he is the insurance company's, but that still helps a lot. You are liable out of pocket for any judgement that exceeds the limit of your coverage, so it's a gamble deciding what the correct amount of coverage is.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

... may ask about anchors next. ...

Nonononono Noooooo!

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by rwidman

If you own anything of value, you are a fool to not have liability insurance on your boat, car , home or business. You could lose everything. This is a commonly held belief in the US.
The reader should ask him or herself whether or not s/he agrees.

If you are a worthless bum, living from hand to mouth and owning nothing, your only need for liability insurance is your sense of responsibility for your actions. Of course, none of US are worthless bums--this is CF!

Don't mind harming someone else and just walking away? Don't need liability insurance. Possibly true, but I don't believe it applies, and it reads like a logical inconsistency.

BTW: Liability isn't just running into another boat and sinking it. Run over a kayak and kill the operator and see where you stand. Let your own boat sink and have a fuel spill and see where you stand. Invite someone onto your boat and they fall off and drown, see where you stand.

Yes, but even at $10 million, liability won't cover 1/2 a burnt marina, or loss of life. Financially, most people cannot afford a high enough limit to liability insurance to insure against everything that might possibly go wrong. All that can be taken from you is all that you have. After that, you're back on your own. There are limits to loss even with bankruptcy.

We carry liability insurance, it is required to use marinas and hardstands where we are. And it would be inadequate to make good a real disaster. We were uninsured completely from about 1989 when we left the States, until about 5 yrs. ago.

During the uninsured time, instead of insurance premiums, we invested in anchors, chain, GPS when it became available, radar, things to keep the boat safer. When we were dismasted, and had to repair the damages from that event, we paid out of pocket. With everything, money wise, we were still ahead by quite a bit, with the savings from not paying premiums. Lifestyle cruising is not a high risk situation. One could not even get "hull insurance" with only two crew on a boat when we left, and we got used to being without it. It does tend to keep one focused, and working out solutions to problems that haven't happened.

Ann

Getting back to the original post, we are talking about an area where the OP may be able to slip his boat without liability insurance at a sailing club nearby that has a railway. The boat will be sailed predominantly in a scenic area with low population density, and low boat density. If he wants to haul at a marina yard, he may want to purchase term insurance for the time of the haulout only. The suggestion above that he talk with a broker makes a lot of sense, because his boat is small, and not a large investment, and the local situation is different from the east coast of the US, for example.

Ann

[DumnMad]

Actually thats relevant. How big is Rwidman's anchor ??

[atmartin]

Originally Posted by rwidman

If you own anything of value, you are a fool to not have liability insurance on your boat, car , home or business. You could lose everything.

Everything! Really? I suppose that only a person's property has value? Health, education, job training. That's all chaff?

As other posters brought up, your liability coverage won't protect you from criminal negligence in the case of injury/death. You can't pay your way out of all responsibility.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Ron, you should lift your head out of your fear-driven bunker and look at the real world. It’s really not as scary as you think it is. Nor is it as black and white as your simplistic world-view paints it.

Seriously, why do you insist on insulting and demeaning everyone who thinks differently than you? You realize that you can present your own perspective without being a jerk. Might take a little more time and thought, but I bet you can do it… maybe.

This is a global community. Not everyone lives in your space. Maybe insurance is necessary for your litigious-filled area. Most of the rest of the world is more rational about it all.

You say I'm insulting people but your post is nothing but an insult.

I would hope people would be responsible for their actions world wide. It would be sad if they weren't.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by oldjags

One thing insurance gets you is an attorney if something happens. The insurance attorney is not really looking out for your interests as much as he is the insurance company's, but that still helps a lot. You are liable out of pocket for any judgement that exceeds the limit of your coverage, so it's a gamble deciding what the correct amount of coverage is.

My point exactly!! It's all a gamble.....on the insurers part as well as the insurees!! The deck is heavily stacked to the house though.

So I ask the Rwidman to please define the line that makes one no longer a fool.

Is it $50k? Is it $300k is it $1M?

At what point do you concede that you're hiding under a false blanket of paid for security?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

My point exactly!! It's all a gamble.....on the insurers part as well as the insurees!! The deck is heavily stacked to the house though.

So I ask the Rwidman to please define the line that makes one no longer a fool.

Is it $50k? Is it $300k is it $1M?

At what point do you concede that you're hiding under a false blanket of paid for security?

It depends on your net worth. $300K is about the minimum, $1M or more is better.

Now if you stay in poorer parts of the world you could get away with less.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by rwidman

... $300K is about the minimum, $1M or more is better...

And if you burn down the marina? Then you're uninsured, just like everyone else.

[bobnlesley]

"Generally we self insure, but the problem is the more assets we have, the more it makes sense to have liability only insurance."

Makes sense to me, only a few weeks ago I recall posting on here at my surprise as to how low the liability insurance levels/requirements were in the USA (given its well reported litigious reputation) compared to Europe.

With regard to the NZ system, that I guess works if you're at home, but further afield? I witnessed a NZ flagged yacht get whacked by an uninsured Austrian Yacht in Greece, a few years ago, perhaps €5-6000 of damage and the Austrian guy had no money to pay for the damage his carelessness had caused - he just sailed away at dark o'clock that night - that was certainly one Kiwi who didn't think sailing uninsured was reasonable.

We carry liability insurance (costs about £150/year for the Caribbean and will be double that for the Pacific) for cover of about £5 million, Too much? We cwetainly know many boats who are 'self insuring' in many/most cases, that translates as 'If I damage you/your boat, then tough ****, I can't/won't be paying for it. I think our policy's well worth the price, when the alternative is to potentially have the wrecking of someone else's dream, due to my error on my conscience.

[oldjags]

OK, that's very reasonable. You is your insurer?

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by oldjags

OK, that's very reasonable. You is your insurer?

Mine? We're a UK flagged yacht, insured with Pantaenius

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Some pretty blind condemnation of others here.

NZ took a look at the US litigation industry and decided there was a better way. We have compulsary ACC(Accident compensation) as part of our income tax and third party insurance written into our vehicle registration fees. The idea is to get on with the job of fixing people up without involving the vulture industry.
As a nation we collectively take care of those unfortunately caught up in accidents. We don't run to lawyers to get out of responsibility or to claim an unfair compensation.
The system is not flawless but is a lot better than most others.

Umm, no, third party insurance is NOT part of vehicle registration in NZ. Drive without it if you have nothing to lose, but otherwise you are a fool to drive without it.

I do agree that in general the NZ system is better than the lawyered-up alternatives, but there are lots of people who have fights with ACC because it is not reasonably compensating them after an accident.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

... guy had no money to pay for the damage his carelessness had caused - he just sailed away at dark o'clock that night ...

I think you need to distinguish between those who would disappear in the night and those who won't. Never been side-swiped by a posh car and seen it drive away quick-smart? I've had it happen (to a very close friend) - took weeks to track him down, nailed him in the end, though he denied even being there: he paid up, as his insurance co refused to pay because he "left the scene of an accident"!

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Umm, no, third party insurance is NOT part of vehicle registration in NZ. ..

But accident compensation corporation premiums are.