Piracy :-/

[sailorboy1]

Wait I'm confused and worried now, do I need to add chickens to the things to be prepared to defend aganist? I have heard of the swiming pigs, but not the attack chickens.

[goboatingnow]

I also note that the UK and Oz population combined is less than a third of the US, and those folks haven't the legal basis for gun-totin' That the good ol' Mericans have. Plus, I don't think most peaceniks are facing a foreign invasion along their southern border like the US is. If those pesky Canadians start sneaking in, we, already a minority, will be toast. Piracy can take on many faces bouys and gulls.

Which is why all gun threads go haywire.Me, Im running to the store and buying lots of tins.....

PS. OK Americans in American, have problems with gun toting bubbas, Mexicans, Canadians, and "A-rabs". You are right, I would reccomend, a good Assault rifle and a big magazine, couple of handguns and a few sticks of dynamite before venturing anywhere near the ICW

The rest of us ( us peaceniks, as you say) , however are just worried about the nice guy in an open boat selling fish.!!, I have certainly no intention of ever opening fire first ( even if I did carry a gun)

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Wait I'm confused and worried now, do I need to add chickens to the things to be prepared to defend aganist? I have heard of the swiming pigs, but not the attack chickens.

nah! it was a comment on what in "reality" guns are actually usefull for on a cruising yacht!

but i reccomend watching the hitchcock movie "The birds" just in case..........

Watch The Birds online - download TheBirds - on 1Channel | LetMeWatchThis

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

...I have certainly no intention of ever opening fire first ( even if I did carry a gun)

I wasn't implying I shot AT the bubbas, hell, it might have been BobnConnie, and we all like them. It was dusk. The ex was scared witless. It was time to be a little proactive. We'd both seen Deliverence as well as A Clockwork Orange.

[goboatingnow]

I wasn't implying I shot AT the bubbas, hell, it might have been BobnConnie, and we all like them. It was dusk. The ex was scared witless. It was time to be a little proactive. We'd both seen Deliverence as well as A Clockwork Orange.

Yes always keep a bit of butter handy,. and practice the pig sounds, especially in the southern ICW. remember . practice makes perfect.

DAve

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I am saying that the whole world is civilization.

Some parts of the world (no names ) seem to think that civilization is about "socialism" ....and seem to enjoy the idea of living in an episode of "The Living Dead", rather than being embarrassed about it.

It's funny, embarrassing, puzzling and sad - a bit like Islam , but each to their own .........I don't give a sh#t what nonsense floats yer boat at "home" (and which your "culture" has deemed normal / brainwashed you with)........but a) If you claim that your attitudes are "normal" and should be accepted (or respected??! ) I will voice opposition and b) you can f#ck off back home if you want to bring yer attitudes with you .

I am still kinda puzzled where exactly folks are visiting to actually feel the need to be armed . and am also kinda puzzled as to why folks are so ill prepared and lazy to need a gun to a make a problem go bye bye - almost as if their encounters with "bad men" (with guns or without) come from TV (perhaps why these threads never cover cleanup onboard? - Aesthetics and forensic).......or from in a previous life having aircover (aka cheating ).

It's a big world out there, most folks ain't tryin to kill ya, and even those that are can be solved without a gun....those that you really need a gun for are likely out numbering and outgunning all but Chuck Norris anyway. and are probably also a bit smarter.....but the upside with them is more likely a deal to be made .

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Yes always keep a bit of butter handy,. and practice the pig sounds, especially in the southern ICW. remember . practice makes perfect. DAve

Nah, that's for nancies. Coffee is for closers. What I keep handy is some funeral music and Ludwig's 9th to play full blast across the swamp. Pyrats and bubbas flee. And I play some 12 ga percussion in accompaniment. More like punctuation really.

Have a nice safe day, Dave. It's my birthday. I'm headed over to the local pub for some free libations. I'm not carrying ... but I could be, here in the land of the free.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Nah, that's for nancies. Coffee is for closers. What I keep handy is some funeral music and Ludwig's 9th to play full blast across the swamp. Pyrats and bubbas flee. And I play some 12 ga percussion in accompaniment. More like punctuation really.

Have a nice safe day, Dave. It's my birthday. I'm headed over to the local pub for some free libations. I'm not carrying ... but I could be, here in the land of the free.

watch out for little old ladies demanding beer on the way home

happy birthday! have a safe one

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Obviously you have a lot of experience, in the area of clearing in firearms. Perhaps you might explain the situation to the US boat which had its AR-15 confiscated in German waters last year , As far as Im aware sailors don't actually spend a lot of time on the "high seas" .they spend the majority of it in national waters.

IN my experience, in two trips, the firearm is usually declared, handled in and collected again on departure from national waters, furthermore I find therefore that having that device locked away on land , not much use to me in the defense of my boat., The main reason why it is locked away, is in my experience, the official only cares that the firearm will not be stolen from you and turn up in their arena.

The reason there isnt a "reasonable" debate on yacht security and defensive strategies is that such debates get dominated by the "carry a gun" bridge, almost without exception US based and in effect believing they can transport US law to where they travel next

If the debate was about defence in US water, absolutely its a great debate, and I know exactly what Id carry, a good semi auto rifle for distance and a decent handgun for up close and personal. Im a reasonable shot with either.

But unfortunately the world isnt like the US.

SO why not debate "defensive measure" that dont depend on either hard or impossible to get items,( or reply on combat training etc etc) This debate is then actually useful to a majority of people who dont know anything about "separate and mitigate" , other then it sounds like Baking to me

DAve

Where to start? AR15 in German waters. Was that yacht inbound to a port of entry or did they already clear in without specifying the gun? I would expect German customs to take the gun in their custody until you leave. The Germans are well equiped to protect yachts in their waters from non-existing pirates. That said, I could understand the AR15 being a problem anyhow as it isn't a boat-gun at all.

If you don't want customs taking your gun in custody, you should not bring your gun or not go to that country. It's very simple I think. This means that I won't go to any country that I would not feel comfortable without a gun aboard, like Mexico right now. There are plenty cruisers in Mexico, so we are more careful than them, or better informed. There are also plenty countries where I don't go even when I could keep the gun, like Venezuela, mainland Honduras etc. Then there are plenty of countries left where I go. I only got the gun out once and that was many years ago in Venezuela, which is the reason I mentioned that country above. Places like Somalia are a no-no for us.

I also think that just having a gun aboard doesn't help much, if at all. You need a plan and probably additional measures like reinforced companionway etc. The only proven tactic against boardings is to lock yourself in, delaying entry of the bad guys, which give you time to arm yourself and make them understand it's lethal to stay aboard. This is all discussed by security experts in the book "Pirates Aboard", which is a good read for anyone in this thread who didn't read it yet. This technique has a 100% successrate for those not wishing to read it.

I would not mind an universal law allowing yachts a shotgun and outdoors-gun like a S&W Governor aboard at all times, like it is in much of the Caribbean, although handguns are often a no-no here too. The reason is that we're living an outdoors-life, like Atoll describes. There might be a big angry Bushmaster snake between me and my dinghy, or a croc trying to eat the neighbors, or hunting opportunities; cruisers even get invited by Indians to join their hunt etc. etc. This is all very different from German waters.

Anyway, I still believe CF has to many extremists at both ends of the spectrum to enable a sensible discussion. I believe in electronic counter measures too and have written about that before also. But even parts of that are illegal in some countries.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Some parts of the world (no names ) seem to think that civilization is about "socialism" ....and seem to enjoy the idea of living in an episode of "The Living Dead", rather than being embarrassed about it.

It's funny, embarrassing, puzzling and sad - a bit like Islam , but each to their own .........I don't give a sh#t what nonsense floats yer boat at "home" (and which your "culture" has deemed normal / brainwashed you with)........but a) If you claim that your attitudes are "normal" and should be accepted (or respected??! ) I will voice opposition and b) you can f#ck off back home if you want to bring yer attitudes with you .

I am still kinda puzzled where exactly folks are visiting to actually feel the need to be armed . and am also kinda puzzled as to why folks are so ill prepared and lazy to need a gun to a make a problem go bye bye - almost as if their encounters with "bad men" (with guns or without) come from TV (perhaps why these threads never cover cleanup onboard? - Aesthetics and forensic).......or from in a previous life having aircover (aka cheating ).

It's a big world out there, most folks ain't tryin to kill ya, and even those that are can be solved without a gun....those that you really need a gun for are likely out numbering and outgunning all but Chuck Norris anyway. and are probably also a bit smarter.....but the upside with them is more likely a deal to be made .

I dont think its about,for me anyway, Places where you would feel the need ,its about when times get tough and people that were your friends the years before have now gotten very desperate and start doing things that would have been considered "un-nessecery" when the economic times were better ... I have seen peoples morals and dispositions change very fast in places where the buying and selling of currencey changes on a daily bases.. One day they are getting 35 to 1(US$) and the next it goes to 60 to 1 and stays there! dosent take long before they get to looking for an "easy mark"..Thats one of the reasons that I dont understand why we cant discuss Politics on CF as it is very important to be in the Know about such things ..

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

#4 on Atoll's list

"to wave at suspect fishermen following a little bit too closely."

We meant no harm. We were just gonna ask him if he had any grey poupon. Sheesh.

[SunSpray]

Why doesn't anyone consider using TASER's for onboard close range problems?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by SunSpray

Why doesn't anyone consider using TASER's for onboard close range problems?

they bounce off feral chickens,no good for fish in the water, and goats are far too quick for a tazer

[Group9]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Some parts of the world (no names ) seem to think that civilization is about "socialism" ....and seem to enjoy the idea of living in an episode of "The Living Dead", rather than being embarrassed about it.

It's funny, embarrassing, puzzling and sad - a bit like Islam , but each to their own .........I don't give a sh#t what nonsense floats yer boat at "home" (and which your "culture" has deemed normal / brainwashed you with)........but a) If you claim that your attitudes are "normal" and should be accepted (or respected??! ) I will voice opposition and b) you can f#ck off back home if you want to bring yer attitudes with you .

I am still kinda puzzled where exactly folks are visiting to actually feel the need to be armed . and am also kinda puzzled as to why folks are so ill prepared and lazy to need a gun to a make a problem go bye bye - almost as if their encounters with "bad men" (with guns or without) come from TV (perhaps why these threads never cover cleanup onboard? - Aesthetics and forensic).......or from in a previous life having aircover (aka cheating ).

It's a big world out there, most folks ain't tryin to kill ya, and even those that are can be solved without a gun....those that you really need a gun for are likely out numbering and outgunning all but Chuck Norris anyway. and are probably also a bit smarter.....but the upside with them is more likely a deal to be made .

If you have never been shot at, it's hard to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has. If you've never had anyone try to kill you, and think that means it can't happen, good luck with that.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by atoll

they bounce off feral chickens,no good for fish in the water, and goats are far too quick for a tazer

bubba says that dynamite works on all those!