MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Dockhead,

You asked a question in the first post, by implication, and so far no one has responded to it. The question was why was someone whose PLB was transmitting his position so difficult to find?

And, imo, it's a two part answer: You still have to get a visual on the MOB, and at night, without a strobe light, he's going to be impossible to find; and GPS positions may be be accurate, sometimes you get a poor fix, and here's the guy drifting, going up and down with the waves, accelerating and decelerating, poor fixes and invisibility.

We have seen a race boat recently, fitted with a fabric lifting sling, that with a conscious MOB, could work very fast. IMO, your greatest concern is loss of sight of victim, and the next, his loss of consciousness. In your imaginings, try to work this out for at night. At least you will have a crew pair of eyes to dedicate to following the MOB.

At the end of it, and all the practices you do with your crew, just don't allow yourself to go overboard. That far north, and at the time of year you propose, you will have good enough visibility to keep track of someone with a light, or an illuminated pole, to find them, but they don't have unlimited time to impairment.

Ann

[fxykty]

I volunteered with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary in Vancouver (now Royal Canadian Marine Search and Rescue) and our unit’s primary boat was a 8m RHIB with about 90cm of freeboard. We practiced MOB searches and recovery every time we went out and always with a person in the water in a dry suit and with a VHF radio. Without personal AIS units and in poor conditions (night and/or rain, wind, and waves) we ‘lost’ our MOB about a third of the time and needed them to guide us in by radio.

Finding the person is the first problem and Dock nicely explained it. Personal AIS beacons (automatic!!) make this part much easier and faster. However, that last 100m-50m is still a visual search. If without a personal AIS unit then load up on rescue lights/flares and smoke.

Once sited and attached to the boat, usually via a life buoy on a long line, the more difficult part now is the second part, particularly if the MOB is incapacitated. If they’re capable, then dropping a halyard or other lifting tackle to them and hoisting them is the safest option in anything other than near calm weather. Ensure that their PFD will support them in a vertical or near vertical hoist (generally if it has a built-in harness and dual crutch straps it should be OK, but not necessarily comfortable). In calmer water just haul them up the sugar scoop transom.

If incapacitated due to injury or cold water, always recover the MOB horizontally. Because hypothermia is always a possibility in the cool PNW waters (average summer 13 Celsius and winter 3) we would parbuckle to keep the recovery horizontal. We used two lines, which we’d sink under the MOB so the lines lie at armpits and mid thighs. In calm water no problem. In rough water (anything with more than 50cm of wind chop or waves) we needed a rescue swimmer to manage the MOB (always treated them as incapacitated as that’s the reality very quickly in cold water).

Two people could parbuckle one person up the side of the RHIB. If we were lifting up the side of a yacht, hard and much higher, I’m not sure that two people could manage. And the person being recovered would get mashed against the side of the boat. A net wouldn’t make this any better if one edge is attached to the toe rail. Then of course you have to recover the rescue swimmer.

So for recovery we probably need a vertical lift with mechanical advantage as described by Dock and others. That could be managed by one person if a two-up cruising crew.

The issue then becomes how do you manoeuvre the incapacitated MOB into a cargo net or rescue stretcher in shitty conditions?

On a larger boat and only a cruising couple, I’m not sure there’s a solution other than not going over the side in the first place.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

You lost me Wottie, they did not use the boom at all during the scramble net demo, the only line over the side was the heaving line thrown to the MOB, the boom is midships during the recovery and not in use in the scramble net exercise..

Anyhow i digress, the vid was posted to show the ease of using a scramble net, i did say it wasn't the best video for the purpose

My apologies Matey, I must have been too succinct - but I was only thinking aloud

Allow to try to explain my POV better.

In the video when they were using the Jason's Cradle, one of the crew was holding the outboard side of the cradle slightly away from the boat's side (~1.50). To me, this looked awkward, bad enough in the calm conditions and clearly way more difficult / dangerous in worse sea states.

I am speculating that the outboard side of the cradle could have been suspended (or even hauled out) from the end of a guyed out boom. Thus the cradle would be a largish piece of netting from the side of the hull and end of the boom. This might allow the MOB to get anywhere in the net and still me lifted clear and manoeuvred aboard. If the MOB is being assisted by a swimmer, this should also make the swimmer's job easier. They are both further away from the hull and amount of "usable" net /cradle is greater.

Again this is all speculation on my part and the rigging of the gear to be worked out; however it would allow for a horizontal (more or less) lift.

Still not explained very well but I hope now more clear

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You obviously know what you are talking about.

Can you share with some photos or videos, maybe?

For a person in a harness, we don't need any extra gear -- there is a snap shackle at the end of my lifting tackle, and you just snap it on. For a person without a harness, my plan was always to use the life sling. But I'm not actually sure that this is the optimum device for this purpose -- maybe you can show us what the pros use from helicopters.

I guess that once you are "on the hook" -- the ship may roll, you may be dunked, but you will largely be held above water.

largely but not always, your winchman needs to be able to reach under the victim to sling them. So his buoyancy is probably better to be less rather than more.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have practiced lifting people out of the water from my boom, and it's important to raise the boom as high as possible so that you can then bring the people on board. So that's now part of procedure. The lifting itself is not a big deal with 3:1 tackle and a 10mm dyneema rope.

I think my tackle is strong enough for two people, but I need to try it.

If your gear is oriented to be able to use the boats winch its probably ok, mine really isnt so I probably need more, or redevelop the tackle

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I am sure as hades now going to practice it.

That's a key unknown skill -- getting a debilitated person out of the water. Which will need a lot of effort to develop.

apologies for missing this, lets get at it, I have a training video made for purposes of debriefing crews. These are SAR people, the methods they use are universal.

First off the subject is winched down using a single part sling because we know he is fit. Helos use a winch cable and a snap hook oriented right in front of his eyes, easy in slightly harder out.

When they go to recovery, the winchman is in a harness with a crotch strap, attached. Note their are eyes on him all the time and hand signals are usually just once. They insert his feet into the water and drag him to the subject, this because it is very hard to tell distance/depth from inside the chopper. That said they know from the winch how much cable they have out to make their training repeatable. As the winchman skims to the subject he is pointing at him. In this way eyes are kept on the winchman not scanning for the subject.

When the winchman gets to the subject he ejects him out of the raft so that he can get the two part sling on him. Both the winchman and the two part sling are attached to the hook. They always train with the view that the subject is impaired or incapacitated.

First part of the sling goes over the head, under the arms, hook reoriented, snugged up with the slide. Then the second part under his feet to about the knees, no snugger. The subjects body will naturally fall to the correct position as theyre winched up. Its not impossible to fall out of the sling but it is very very rare.

Just watching this is quite tiring, you can imagine the stress on the crews, but experience shows blocks of recoveries for training up to the point of endurance are very useful. Thats why theyre done this way. Then debrief. I wouldnt propose going quite so far but you need to evaluate how ppl are going on the fly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRw7oKPd-w

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, Dockhead,

You asked a question in the first post, by implication, and so far no one has responded to it. The question was why was someone whose PLB was transmitting his position so difficult to find?

And, imo, it's a two part answer: You still have to get a visual on the MOB, and at night, without a strobe light, he's going to be impossible to find; and GPS positions may be be accurate, sometimes you get a poor fix, and here's the guy drifting, going up and down with the waves, accelerating and decelerating, poor fixes and invisibility.

We have seen a race boat recently, fitted with a fabric lifting sling, that with a conscious MOB, could work very fast. IMO, your greatest concern is loss of sight of victim, and the next, his loss of consciousness. In your imaginings, try to work this out for at night. At least you will have a crew pair of eyes to dedicate to following the MOB.

At the end of it, and all the practices you do with your crew, just don't allow yourself to go overboard. That far north, and at the time of year you propose, you will have good enough visibility to keep track of someone with a light, or an illuminated pole, to find them, but they don't have unlimited time to impairment.

Ann

Hi Ann:

Actually, we did figure it out, if you read further in the thread -- the casualty simply did not activate the AIS beacon for 40 minutes.

And yes, Plan "A", of course, is to not go overboard in the first place. I think measures to prevent losing someone overboard have three broad sections of procedures and protocols:

1. Staying on Board.

2. Finding and Maneuvering to the Casualty.

3. Recovering the Casualty out of the Water.
a. Casualty Debilitated (unconscious, sluggish, injured, etc.)
b. Casualty Active

Each of these subjects is a whole art in itself.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I volunteered with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary in Vancouver (now Royal Canadian Marine Search and Rescue) and our unit’s primary boat was a 8m RHIB with about 90cm of freeboard. We practiced MOB searches and recovery every time we went out and always with a person in the water in a dry suit and with a VHF radio. Without personal AIS units and in poor conditions (night and/or rain, wind, and waves) we ‘lost’ our MOB about a third of the time and needed them to guide us in by radio.

Finding the person is the first problem and Dock nicely explained it. Personal AIS beacons (automatic!!) make this part much easier and faster. However, that last 100m-50m is still a visual search. If without a personal AIS unit then load up on rescue lights/flares and smoke.

Once sited and attached to the boat, usually via a life buoy on a long line, the more difficult part now is the second part, particularly if the MOB is incapacitated. If they’re capable, then dropping a halyard or other lifting tackle to them and hoisting them is the safest option in anything other than near calm weather. Ensure that their PFD will support them in a vertical or near vertical hoist (generally if it has a built-in harness and dual crutch straps it should be OK, but not necessarily comfortable). In calmer water just haul them up the sugar scoop transom.

If incapacitated due to injury or cold water, always recover the MOB horizontally. Because hypothermia is always a possibility in the cool PNW waters (average summer 13 Celsius and winter 3) we would parbuckle to keep the recovery horizontal. We used two lines, which we’d sink under the MOB so the lines lie at armpits and mid thighs. In calm water no problem. In rough water (anything with more than 50cm of wind chop or waves) we needed a rescue swimmer to manage the MOB (always treated them as incapacitated as that’s the reality very quickly in cold water).

Two people could parbuckle one person up the side of the RHIB. If we were lifting up the side of a yacht, hard and much higher, I’m not sure that two people could manage. And the person being recovered would get mashed against the side of the boat. A net wouldn’t make this any better if one edge is attached to the toe rail. Then of course you have to recover the rescue swimmer.

So for recovery we probably need a vertical lift with mechanical advantage as described by Dock and others. That could be managed by one person if a two-up cruising crew.

The issue then becomes how do you manoeuvre the incapacitated MOB into a cargo net or rescue stretcher in shitty conditions?

On a larger boat and only a cruising couple, I’m not sure there’s a solution other than not going over the side in the first place.

Thanks. Good first hand experience. I'll try to improve my MOB practices. More emphasis on having the harness on and giving the MOB some tools to locate himself.

[Catapault]

Recommend: Subscribe to, and read everything by these folks regarding staying onboard, and saftey gear.

https://www.morganscloud.com/

They do a lot of high Arctic cruising and, IMO, have a very sensible and practical set of approaches to staying onboard, and MOB gear.

Regards

Mark.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

largely but not always, your winchman needs to be able to reach under the victim to sling them. So his buoyancy is probably better to be less rather than more.



If your gear is oriented to be able to use the boats winch its probably ok, mine really isnt so I probably need more, or redevelop the tackle



apologies for missing this, lets get at it, I have a training video made for purposes of debriefing crews. These are SAR people, the methods they use are universal.

First off the subject is winched down using a single part sling because we know he is fit. Helos use a winch cable and a snap hook oriented right in front of his eyes, easy in slightly harder out.

When they go to recovery, the winchman is in a harness with a crotch strap, attached. Note their are eyes on him all the time and hand signals are usually just once. They insert his feet into the water and drag him to the subject, this because it is very hard to tell distance/depth from inside the chopper. That said they know from the winch how much cable they have out to make their training repeatable. As the winchman skims to the subject he is pointing at him. In this way eyes are kept on the winchman not scanning for the subject.

When the winchman gets to the subject he ejects him out of the raft so that he can get the two part sling on him. Both the winchman and the two part sling are attached to the hook. They always train with the view that the subject is impaired or incapacitated.

First part of the sling goes over the head, under the arms, hook reoriented, snugged up with the slide. Then the second part under his feet to about the knees, no snugger. The subjects body will naturally fall to the correct position as theyre winched up. Its not impossible to fall out of the sling but it is very very rare.

Just watching this is quite tiring, you can imagine the stress on the crews, but experience shows blocks of recoveries for training up to the point of endurance are very useful. Thats why theyre done this way. Then debrief. I wouldnt propose going quite so far but you need to evaluate how ppl are going on the fly.

Extremely useful, thank you!

This thread, as it has evolved, has been more useful than my wildest dreams for it.

I start to understand now how little I know about the subject.

And how totally unprepared probably 90% of cruisers (if not more) are for a dealing with a MOB in rough weather, or dealing with an incapacitated MOB.

It's shocking that the usual MOB practice most of us do does not include any training for actually lifting people out of the water. Some people don't comprehend at all how difficult it is, even with an active casualty, even in reasonable conditions.

I'm glad that I can say that I have been practicing lifting active people out of the water. But hubris is a deadly thing at sea -- and I now understand that I had a false sense of mastery of this risk, and that I have no clue about what to do with an incapacitated casualty.

So now I see very clearly the task before me -- to figure this out and then verify what I can figure out with actual people in the water practice, and lots of it. I want every crew member on this trip to have experience in all of the roles: winchman, helmsman, rescue swimmer, and casualty. Everyone is physically fit and everyone will have drysuit, hood, etc.

I think the practice will be actually fun -- I will work it into the cruise in a way which will make it an enjoyable challenge.


I think the really hard challenge, and the one that I have not previously worked on, is how to deal with an incapacitated casualty.

Someone (Thinwater?) said he thought there would inevitably be some swimming involved.

Let's drill into that.

If we suppose that this is true, then what is involved? First of all, we'll appoint a primary and backup rescue swimmer from among the crew, and have these people practice. The rescue swimmer should have dive fins on (I guess?), dive hood, dive mask, and of course his drysuit and gloves. No PFD but he will wear a climbing harness (?) in case he needs to be lifted out himself. He will have his AIS beacon, a knife, and perhaps a VHF radio. He will be firmly tied in on a longish floating rope so he can't drift too far away from the boat, and can pull himself in (or be pulled in).

Up to a certain sea state, I think he goes right into the water when we are close enough to the casualty.

But is there a sea state above which it may become difficult for him to breathe? The helicopter rescue practice clip above shows one guy playing the victim -- the very last rescue -- experiencing some stress breathing. What about this?

And is this the case then for lowering the rescue swimming on the lifting tackle, rather than putting him right into the water?

If the incapacitated or debilitated casualty is in his harness -- which should be the likely case, then all the rescue swimmer needs to do is get the lifting tackle clipped on. I have practiced being lifting by my own harness, and it is reasonably comfortable and it is not vertical.

Here is how NOT to lift anyone other than an active casualty in very calm weather:



I have practiced this with my own life sling, and it is obviously dangerous. If the vessel is rolling, you will be smashed against the side as you come up, and hanging from your shoulders like this is painful and awkward. This would be maximum risk of that heart failure risk discussed earlier.

So what if the incapacitated casualty is not in a harness?

I don't know. Here are some things which have been suggested or demonstrated so far:

a. Parbuckle net (which can double as a scramble net)
b. Galerider drogue to "scoop up" the casualty
c. Two part sling like in the heli rescue video

Anything else?

And are we sure that there must absolutely be swimming involved?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The rescue swimmer should have dive fins on (I guess?), dive hood, dive mask, and of course his drysuit and gloves. No PFD but he will wear a climbing harness (?) in case he needs to be lifted out himself. He will have his AIS beacon, a knife, and perhaps a VHF radio. He will be firmly tied in on a longish floating rope so he can't drift too far away from the boat, and can pull himself in (or be pulled in).

You missed one key item, a snorkel. If the sea is rough the rescue diver will have real problems breathing without it, it is a life saver in its own right just as a sprayhood is on a lifejacket. Don't bother with the VHF, the rescue diver is tied to the yacht he isn't going anywhere and won't have any free hands to operate a radio.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Up to a certain sea state, I think he goes right into the water when we are close enough to the casualty.

But is there a sea state above which it may become difficult for him to breathe? The helicopter rescue practice clip above shows one guy playing the victim -- the very last rescue -- experiencing some stress breathing. What about this?

And is this the case then for lowering the rescue swimming on the lifting tackle, rather than putting him right into the water?

Don't mess about you don't have the time for lowering people with a tackle that will dunk him and then lift him as the boat rolls. Assuming the rescue diver is reasonably water fit and confident then let him jump in near the casualty and have another member of the crew tend the line.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If the incapacitated or debilitated casualty is in his harness -- which should be the likely case, then all the rescue swimmer needs to do is get the lifting tackle clipped on. I have practiced being lifting by my own harness, and it is reasonably comfortable and it is not vertical.
ere is how NOT to lift anyone other than an active casualty in very calm weather:

You are running out of people. One or more are casualties, its a possibility. One is a rescue diver, one tending the line of the diver, one driving the boat, another tending the line you intend to use to the casualty, oh and you. You must not drive the boat, you should not tend any lines or get involved. Stand back and manage the situation by directing others what needs to be done. Its difficult and against human nature but the one lesson we learnt as diving supervisors is manage the big picture which means giving instructions to others to do stuff. Paramedics are good at this too, asking by standers to get involved reassuring none urgent casualties whilst they triage the serious casualties.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

You missed one key item, a snorkel. If the sea is rough the rescue diver will have real problems breathing without it, it is a life saver in its own right just as a sprayhood is on a lifejacket. Don't bother with the VHF, the rescue diver is tied to the yacht he isn't going anywhere and won't have any free hands to operate a radio.



Don't mess about you don't have the time for lowering people with a tackle that will dunk him and then lift him as the boat rolls. Assuming the rescue diver is reasonably water fit and confident then let him jump in near the casualty and have another member of the crew tend the line.



You are running out of people. One or more are casualties, its a possibility. One is a rescue diver, one tending the line of the diver, one driving the boat, another tending the line you intend to use to the casualty, oh and you. You must not drive the boat, you should not tend any lines or get involved. Stand back and manage the situation by directing others what needs to be done. Its difficult and against human nature but the one lesson we learnt as diving supervisors is manage the big picture which means giving instructions to others to do stuff. Paramedics are good at this too, asking by standers to get involved reassuring none urgent casualties whilst they triage the serious casualties.

Pete

Thanks; superbly useful information from a highly skilled diver!

I wondered about the snorkel. I guess I will need one of those which has a valve at the end of it.

The diver's perspective is to go right into the water and deal directly with the casualty and not faff around with getting lowered towards the casualty -- OK, I think this makes sense. As long as you have a strong swimmer properly clothed and equipped and comfortable in cold, rough water, it makes sense.

I guess further evidence of how much sense it makes, is that this is the way SAR services do it.

This will take a lot of practice to get down to muscle memory. I will try to make it fun, but you know, almost anything which involves being in the water (other than going overboard accidentally) is inherently fun.

Maybe we'll write an article afterwards to share what we learn.

I wish we had you on board, Pete! Maybe you'd like to join us for some of this practice? But it looks like one of the crew will be a fairly experienced diver, and this person would be the logical designated rescue swimmer. Obviously we will appoint a backup, and I think all of us will have a go at this role in practice.


As to "running out of people" -- yeah, this is an issue. We will be five or six, all physically fit and good swimmers, so there will be reasonable human resources compared to most cruising boats, but it's barely enough, and if there are multiple casualties it will be harder. Ideally two people should be on the lifting tackle, as the boom needs to be worked (mainsheet and preventer) as well as the tackle itself. One on the helm, one in the water, and oops -- we're out of people. I guess the reduced contingent will have one person on the lifting tackle, me on the helm, and one in the water.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

And are we sure that there must absolutely be swimming involved?

I had the advantage that we always had reasonably fit people who were water confident on board when dealing with emergencies. You may not be in the same position and putting a second person in the water risks having two casualties, no doubt about that. So the rescuer must be tied on to the yacht with a line handler.

Rather than have another line to the casualty which risks entanglement and they will, use a diver buddy line. For 30 years I carried one, rarely used but always in my pocket. 6-8ft of rope and two carabiners. Rescuer clips casualty to himself and then if a wave breaks over them the aren't going to be separated.

If the casualty isn't wearing a lifejacket with harness or separate harness then I think you are going to have to use a lifesling. If its calm then two ropes and lift horizontally but that won't work in gale conditions.

You are going to need a man over board bag so all this stuff is in one place.

Mask
Knife
Fins
Snorkel
Rescue Divers life line
Buddy line
MOB rescue lifting device

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Someone (Thinwater?) said he thought there would inevitably be some swimming involved.

Let's drill into that.

If we suppose that this is true, then what is involved? First of all, we'll appoint a primary and backup rescue swimmer from among the crew, and have these people practice. The rescue swimmer should have dive fins on (I guess?), dive hood, dive mask, and of course his drysuit and gloves. No PFD but he will wear a climbing harness (?) in case he needs to be lifted out himself. He will have his AIS beacon, a knife, and perhaps a VHF radio. He will be firmly tied in on a longish floating rope so he can't drift too far away from the boat, and can pull himself in (or be pulled in).

Up to a certain sea state, I think he goes right into the water when we are close enough to the casualty.

But is there a sea state above which it may become difficult for him to breathe? The helicopter rescue practice clip above shows one guy playing the victim -- the very last rescue -- experiencing some stress breathing. What about this?

I wouldnt be so sure he was playing
you can see people began to make mistakes, where the winchman didnt get the subject out of the raft, where the helo pilot didnt have the winchman low enough in the water.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

And is this the case then for lowering the rescue swimming on the lifting tackle, rather than putting him right into the water?

what about, free swimmer wearing a PDF fitted with a crotch strap and safety line with self contained kit. He grabs our boy using standard rescue techniques and is pulled into the boat. Here the lifting gear awaits to bring them both aboard. Assuming we know how they will be lifted the issue we have is what that lifting gear looks like

In the PDF someone helpfully posted numerous PFD wearing victims had the PFD pulled from them on lifting, we dont want that to happen, so perhaps it needs to be a device unto itself

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If the incapacitated or debilitated casualty is in his harness -- which should be the likely case, then all the rescue swimmer needs to do is get the lifting tackle clipped on. I have practiced being lifting by my own harness, and it is reasonably comfortable and it is not vertical.

Here is how NOT to lift anyone other than an active casualty in very calm weather:

Attachment 167764

I have practiced this with my own life sling, and it is obviously dangerous. If the vessel is rolling, you will be smashed against the side as you come up, and hanging from your shoulders like this is painful and awkward. This would be maximum risk of that heart failure risk discussed earlier.

So what if the incapacitated casualty is not in a harness?

I don't know. Here are some things which have been suggested or demonstrated so far:

a. Parbuckle net (which can double as a scramble net)
b. Galerider drogue to "scoop up" the casualty
c. Two part sling like in the heli rescue video

Anything else?

BTW I can give my PFD a crotch strap just using my 3 point safety line. Clip on, under the crotch, over the shoulder, clip on. Get the shorter part over the shoulder and clip on to the line behind the neck.

Anywho whatever the sling is it needs to capture them under the arms and lower down the abdomen. The 2 part sling works because the victim reclines into it but there are other devices. What concerns me is that adding part 2 of the sling begins to slow things down and complicate it for the swimmer. Id really like it all in one packet.

One of the features of lifesling is that it comes with its own buoyancy and it will get most people to the boat. In this scenario the swimmer never left the boat, he clips the lifesling to the lifting gear, which has another sling for under the knees, and lift.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

And are we sure that there must absolutely be swimming involved?

in some case yes, in around half the fatals maybe not. The answer is too flexible as it depends on sea state/wind, when we know some where lost in much easier circumstances

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I wondered about the snorkel. I guess I will need one of those which has a valve at the end of it.

EEK no ping pong balls, no valves, just 18" of bent plastic tube please. 10 minutes of practice and instruction clearing the tube will do if anyone hasn't practised before.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

One of the features of lifesling is that it comes with its own buoyancy and it will get most people to the boat. In this scenario the swimmer never left the boat, he clips the lifesling to the lifting gear, which has another sling for under the knees, and lift.

A key point which avoids the risk of a second casualty.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

EEK no ping pong balls, no valves, just 18" of bent plastic tube please. 10 minutes of practice and instruction clearing the tube will do if anyone hasn't practised before.

Pete

Ok, OK -- I immediately defer to your knowledge. Then I already have suitable snorkels on board.

We will practice with them.