tips for anchoring in grass

[boatman61]

I have had a preference for Bruce ever since the main CQR anchor on my then new to me boat had its shaft snap after 3 days of us sailing around in 50kt winds.
I then put on the 15kg Bruce that was in the locker and used that hook around the Med for the next 4yrs on all types of bottoms.
Places like Alcudia, Mallorca had very weedy bottoms but I have found these areas have bare patches of varying size so would drop my hook at the upwind end of one of these and as usual let the combination of wind and boat weight do the bedding in.. Worked fine.
Andratx was hard bottom and weed.. the trick there was to drop the hook upwind of one off the many of the crevices running across the inlet and let the boat drag back with 10 metres out until it dropped in and set.. then letting out the rest of the chain needed.. if backing down with motor it would skip over.
Slag them all you want but for me Bruce are good enough, while sitting in the cockpit watching other types drag past me.

[groundtackle]

I guess l was slagging.Sorry
I honestly feel getting the gear underground quickly is the best chance in grass.
Bruces have sticky out bits that effect the performance.
This is a very interesting thread and hope we can all keep it going.
What works in my backyard may not work in yours.
Chris

[s/v Jedi]

My original 80kg Bruce has performed 100% in every bottom type incl. rock. It won the gold medal during hurricane Ivan

That said, I believe that some types of modern design anchors can work just as well in some types of bottom... even at a lighter weight anchor. But I’ve also seen many failures and never one that performed as well as the Bruce overall. I firmly believe that the weak points of a Bruce are solved by selecting a size or two up

Much bad rep for knock-off Bruce anchors, most of which without flared flukes and many even bent stocks. Being out of production, buyers need to find an alternative or a 2nd hand.

[wtmf]

ground tackle if technology is the answer why are we haveing this discussion and not simply disclose the new whatever that solves the dragging anchor in grass issue? I would like to be the FIRST to wish EVERYONE a Merry Christmas.

[groundtackle]

Wtmf, In grass, it’s about getting your anchor into the ground fast.
Yes I do have an answer for that..
It’s an Excel and worthy of consideration and it’s different.
I personally know it works in weed.
Chris.

[ranger58sb]

Just a general comment:

I think comparisons between 10 Kg XXXXX anchors and 100 Kg YYYYY anchors don't always help all that much. For that matter, even comparisons between 10 kg XXXXX anchors and 100 Kg XXXXX anchors don't always seem all that useful, given that anchor performance relative to weight doesn't seem to be linear.

Common responses here sometimes praise anchor AAAAA, sometimes after condemning anchor BBBBB, but the commentor may or may not have any experience with any other anchor. And the comments don't always add enough background (rode system, boat details, sea and wind states during success or failure, setting technique (or not), etc.).

Input can still be useful, but it also pays to read between the rodes (so to speak).

Just FWIW...

-Chris

[groundtackle]

R42, great insight. Extremely difficult to achieve accurate tests but done everyday, just not on our little toys. 0.1 xx vs 1.0 xx vs 10kg xx vs 100kg xx vs 10,000kg is scalable. That’s actually how it’s done, modeling. There isn’t large enough test equipment that exists to pull on certain oil platform anchors. Extrapolation is all you have, its good useable data and attempt to trickle that down as I get it.
Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

0.1 xx vs 1.0 xx vs 10kg xx vs 100kg xx vs 10,000kg is scalable. That’s actually how it’s done, modeling.

Yes, I think scaling is possible... likely expedient... but I just don't think it's always perfectly straight-line. As some would hope.

And since anchor performance is impacted by everything and its brother (ship weight/size/windage, sea states, rode makeup, setting techniques, bottom material, etc.) it's even more difficult to ameliorate all the various reviews folks can see here.

Not an argument, just an observation.

-Chris

[groundtackle]

ranger42c, I didn’t see it as an argument and hope I wasn’t either. The whole subject is very intriguing. The holding curves are, well, curvey. Ameliorate, great word.
Further to your rode comments.. I’d add that snubbers and properly sized long ones can actually double the holding power of an anchor. Big chain and swivels can also retard an anchors ability to dive.
Dropping the hook in some less than ideal spot and deciding to stay a little longer.
Tired, tipsy or truculent, we usually don’t get that info when folks add their personal experiences. Haha.
btw, we just supplied a #6 Aluminum Excel as a spare, kedge and stern anchor for a Ranger 42’. Take apart shank and weighs 16kg/35 lbs. It’s brother in galvanized is 30kg/66lbs.
Chris

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Kokanee

Our local area mainly has a weed over limestone bottom. I try to avoid disturbing the weed, but sometimes there is no choice.

Most anchors don't work very well on the weedy limestone, but a local company has developed an anchor that penetrates the weed and will bite on limestone ledges. It's a stockless type anchor but has limited surface area so not much use in soft mud.



Tough to get one anchor that does everything but this works over here.

+1.

I’ve been trying to find an opportunity to film the Marsh Stockless the way Steve has with the other anchors.

It really is impressive in sea grass.

Overall, a lot harder to set than my older Sarca and a lot heavier too. But very easy to mount on the bow rollers which is a big plus over the old admiralty or fisherman’s anchors. My Sarca never gave me trouble in seagrass but it did worry me.

The fluke area of the Marsh is reasonably large and gives good holding in moderately soft bottoms like sand. (Probably not good in really soft mud as you suggest though)

Pretty happy with it on limestone too.

[groundtackle]

GILow, I kept getting dead links for the Marsh / Industrial spring and steel. I need to look harder?
Chris

[Cheechako]

It has nothing to do with the Delta, as he said, his anchor is covered with mud and grass. The bottom does not hold the force of the boat. The Delta brought the bottom up with it, it didn't drag or come loose.
OP: it sounds like you need an anchor with more surface area, but a Danforth type is notoriously bad in grass so not sure what to recommend.
But more bottom info is needed.
-Grass and shallow mud over hard pan?
-Clay under shallow mud?
ie: do you need more surface area or need to penetrate better?

[noelex 77]

Weed is one of the few substrates that modern anchors still struggle with. As it is a common substrate, an anchor’s performance in weed is extremely important.

Unfortunately, evaluating weed performance is very difficult. I have found when observing anchor performance underwater that an anchor can look well set (because it is buried in the weed) but if you reach down and feel what is happening, often the anchor tip is being held by the weed rather than the far more secure set of penetrating the weed into the substrate below& the weed.

User reports are also problematic. Thick weed can actually provide reliable holding in moderate winds even with anchor designs that cannot penetrate the weed roots. However, in strong winds an anchor just holding onto the weed will not be reliable.

One thing to note is that even if the substrate is only partially weedy, an anchor that drags will frequently pick up heaps of weed. Sometimes weed is incorrectly blamed for the dragging incident. Conversely, convex plow anchors frequently shed weed when they are pulled off the bottom, so they can sometimes give little indication of weed even if this was the cause of the drag (although this depends on the type of weed). Have a look at the photo of this Delta underwater. All this weed is no longer attached to the bottom. It has been pulled out as the anchor dragged. However, when raised the owner would have little comprehension of how cloged the anchor had become when it was actually on the seabed.

Underwater:


Surface:


The best weed anchors have a thin, sharp toe. Anchors with ballast in the toe such as the convex plow anchors have a tough time forcing this thick ballast through the weed roots.

Bigger certainly helps. For the most part, a small anchor fitted to a smaller boat will perform in a very similar way to larger anchor of the same design fitted to correspondingly large boat, but in weed this relationship tends to break down. The weed roots do not change size.

Finally, technique is important in weed. It is vital that no force is placed on the anchor until an adequate scope is reached. So after dropping the anchor try and lay the chain in straight line but do not risk moving the anchor by placing undue force on the anchor until adequate scope is reached.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

GILow, I kept getting dead links for the Marsh / Industrial spring and steel. I need to look harder?
Chris

Ah, I think I know why that is. Marsh Springs themselves stopped making them a year or two back. They are now being produced in some kind of business partnership with North Haven Marine (Excellent chandlers!) Same anchor and casting I believe.

I will ask Rob and Mandy at North Haven Marine what they are doing for a web presence. The anchors themselves are so popular here in South Australia that they don't actually have to advertise them to sell them. They are easily on more than 50% of the boats around me.

Edit: Found this link on their web site, I suspect it is all they currently provide. Like I say, the anchors really sell themselves here in South Australia. And I have spoken to a few Tasmanians or cruisers of Tasmania, who also like them for Kelp, which I am told can be an issue in some parts of Tassie.

https://nhmarine.com.au/about-us/#anchor1

[Painted Skies]

Originally Posted by GILow

Ah, I think I know why that is. Marsh Springs themselves stopped making them a year or two back. They are now being produced in some kind of business partnership with North Haven Marine (Excellent chandlers!) Same anchor and casting I believe.

https://nhmarine.com.au/about-us/#anchor1

We heartily endorse the Marsh Stockless anchor which is now exclusively sold through Rob and Mandy at North Haven Marine (who, as Matt mentioned, are awesome!). Having spent four years in South Australia trying to get our Manson Supreme to set and hold in these grassy bottoms (sometimes very thin over limestone) we finally took the hint from local sailors and purchased a Marsh Stockless. After two long summers of cruising with it, we believe it is the best anchor for these grassy/weedy/sandy bottoms. It is super-easy to set, and has always reset when the wind shifts.

The only down side of the Marsh anchor is that they are very clumsy for boats such as ours with an original bow roller designed for the old-style anchors such as the CQR and Bruce. In order to accommodate the Marsh on the bow of our Tartan 412, a new roller system had to be designed and constructed (which was done very competently by Becker Enterprises). It allows the anchor to stop at the two 'horns' which keep it locked in place while underway. I'll attach a few photos in case anyone is interested (after all, who doesn't like to look at a bit of boat bling?)