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Old 04-06-2013, 18:50   #1
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Rocna Repositioned

When the kerfuffle erupted a couple of years ago over Rocna's covert decision to reduce shank steel quality below that specified by the founder while pretending not to, it was suggested that the new, cheaper Rocna just needed to re-position itself as a cheaper and lower quality Manson Supreme.

Apparently that is what has happened. In looking at Fisheries Supply in Seattle, a Manson Supreme 45# is priced, with my discount, at $452.00 while the 44# Rocna only cost $380 - a reasonable discount for an anchor a little more than 10% weaker in the shank than the Manson even before taking into account the slighter thicker shank of the Supreme. That net 15% or so weaker Rocna anchor is 15% or so cheaper. It used to be that the Rocna sold for more than the Manson, which given the quality differential made no sense. Now that is reversed. Wow! Market price transparency works.

I'm not a fan of hoop anchors, since so many other designs don't have them and in many cases hold at least as good or better I honestly can't figure out what the hoop is for. But if your heart is set on one, you now have a perfectly rational buying decision.
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Old 04-06-2013, 18:56   #2
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Re: Rocna repositioned

Roll bar anchor are designed to always put the pointy side down ASAP.
Roll Bars make it set faster no mater how she hit bottom.
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:04   #3
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Re: Rocna repositioned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Roll bar anchor are designed to always put the pointy side down ASAP.
Roll Bars make it set faster no mater how she hit bottom.
I know that's what the manufacturers say, but other designs do as well or better in terms of digging in quickly. So, other than preventing the anchor from as freely burying (bad) and preventing them from fitting under many bow pulpits (bad), I'm not sure what they contribute. Apparently not needed on the new Manson Boss, which is a pretty close analog to the Supreme that has one. I continue to think that the Rocna has a roll bar because the anchor copied, the Buegel did, and whether Manson also copied the Buegel or copied the Rocna copy of the Buegel, roll bars endured.
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:07   #4
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Re: Rocna repositioned

Actually any new gen anchor landing upside down on the shaft is inherently unstable and will end up on its side with the tip pointing - hopefully - groundward.

It seems to me that the mass of the hoop simply provides a turning moment against the tip pointing groundward.

About the opposite of what is needed.
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:11   #5
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pirate Re: Rocna repositioned

Who cares.... apart from the shoppers for 'The Latest and Greatest'...
<<<< Cynical booga..
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:14   #6
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Re: Rocna repositioned

When you said repositioned, I thought you meant to dumpster or the lazerette.
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:21   #7
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Re: Rocna repositioned

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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
I know that's what the manufacturers say, but other designs do as well or better in terms of digging in quickly. So, other than preventing the anchor from as freely burying (bad) and preventing them from fitting under many bow pulpits (bad), I'm not sure what they contribute. Apparently not needed on the new Manson Boss, which is a pretty close analog to the Supreme that has one. I continue to think that the Rocna has a roll bar because the anchor copied, the Buegel did, and whether Manson also copied the Buegel or copied the Rocna copy of the Buegel, roll bars endured.
I have a manson supreme and it's never, ever, not set. It's popped loose a couple of times with 180 tide changes but always resets quickly enough and digs deep. Regardless of what manufacturers say, people with manson supremes are a pretty happy lot.
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:31   #8
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Re: Rocna repositioned

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I have a manson supreme and it's never, ever, not set. It's popped loose a couple of times with 180 tide changes but always resets quickly enough and digs deep. Regardless of what manufacturers say, people with manson supremes are a pretty happy lot.
Agreed that the Rocna, Supreme (hoop types) set quickly, as does the Boss, Fortress, Spade, Ultra, Kobra, Excel (not hoop types). As do all new generation anchors, with a few exceptions.
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:41   #9
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Re: Rocna repositioned

Heck! If setting quickly is the thing that makes a New Age anchor, them my old Danforth sure qualifys !! Cus it sets with a big bang always quick! If the bottom is right !! LOL Maybe we need a better guideline then setting quickly to make a new age anchor maybe ???
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:44   #10
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Re: Rocna repositioned

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Heck! If setting quickly is the thing that makes a New Age anchor, them my old Danforth sure qualifys !! Cus it sets with a big bang always quick! If the bottom is right !! LOL Maybe we need a better guideline then setting quickly to make a new age anchor maybe ???
I put in the part about how mine resets really well.
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Old 04-06-2013, 20:13   #11
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Re: Rocna repositioned

Ya got me there Rebel lol, there have been a time or two when she reset herself, but more that I had to reset LOL but I still like to hook up both fore and aft ! if I can, and been known to change places for that reason lol !! I like my sleep ! And we can't fit anything other then a danforth without about 10 grand in changes ! so Im stuck with a 100 lb danforth on a 51 ft boat !
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Old 06-06-2013, 20:19   #12
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Re: Rocna repositioned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Roll bar anchor are designed to always put the pointy side down ASAP.
Roll Bars make it set faster no mater how she hit bottom.
Cotemar, the video shows the problematic side to hoop anchors. Granted this is an on land test but I think its still instructive where heavier seabeds or weeds are present. Start watching around 1 minute in.

This is not to say the Manson Supreme or Rocna are not fine anchors - they are and a great improvement on many older designs, but the hoop is not part of the improvement, IMHO.

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Old 06-06-2013, 20:58   #13
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Re: Rocna repositioned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Cotemar, the video shows the problematic side to hoop anchors. Granted this is an on land test but I think its still instructive where heavier seabeds or weeds are present. Start watching around 1 minute in.

This is not to say the Manson Supreme or Rocna are not fine anchors - they are and a great improvement on many older designs, but the hoop is not part of the improvement, IMHO.
What exactly is the problem? The anchor rolled over and set. The rollbar appeared to assist with this.
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Old 06-06-2013, 21:08   #14
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Re: Rocna repositioned

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What exactly is the problem? The anchor rolled over and set. The rollbar appeared to assist with this.
Whether the roll bar is needed to get the anchor to set is one of the mysteries of the roll bar, since other anchors set just fine or better without one. What the video shows is that the space between the flukes and the roll bar fills up and prevents the anchor from burying any deeper. Again, hoop anchors seem to hold fine, but the hoop also serves as a backboard collecting trash preventing them from holding even better. Perhaps that's why Manson did away with it on the Boss?
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Old 06-06-2013, 22:05   #15
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Re: Rocna repositioned

The manson boss actually looks a lot like the brake anchor from mondial plaisance, a French company that doesn't market their anchors widely. I recently tossed a 75lb off my boat - not because it didn't set well but because it rusted away in about 8 years.
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