Electric Paddle ("EP Carry") outboard... anyone using one?

[basssears]

Title mostly says it all... looking for any first hand experience with the EP Carry electric outboard:
https://www.electricpaddle.com


We are currently rowing our dinghy but wouldn't mind a little power assist now and then, especially since we tend to fill the dinghy with bulk before we get overweight... so we're not overload our load capacity (or not by much ) but we're so crowded in there with two of us and a 100# dog and our stuff that it's very hard to row... not hard to make the boat move if I can get a good oar stroke I just have no space to take a decent stroke.



If I could just sit in the back with an outboard it would be a lot more convenient, but don't really want another gas motor to maintain etc etc. I like that we could leave the motor on the dink and just bring the 6.5# battery off the dink to charge. And charging an electric outboard battery off onboard solar has a nice all around green feel to it


So anyone who has used one of these personally I'd love to hear your feelings positive or negative.


-- Bass

[Lemsteraak]

Haven't used one yet on my dinghy, I'm curious too. I met up with EP at the Seattle Boat Show and they are the real deal. I like their use of rather generic components. You aren't going to ge quite the power output of a Torqueedo as it is only 24 volts. Torqueedo is something odd like 30 volts and has a larger capacity battery.

I think we all win from the competition. It appears to me that the electrics are finally becoming competition for the venerable Honda 2hp

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Lemsteraak

You aren't going to ge quite the power output of a Torqueedo as it is only 24 volts. Torqueedo is something odd like 30 volts and has a larger capacity battery.

I didn't realize Torqueedo had started making ultralight motors, but they seem to be super short shaft for kayaks only. Their dinghy motors are actually quite competitively priced so I'll have to research them a little more, I hadn't really looked into them in a while since they were just making more trolling motor type applications.


I do like the non integrated battery on the EP Carry, we will also be using this to access an island cabin and I like the idea of leaving the motor on the dinghy and just carrying the battery up to recharge.

Originally Posted by Lemsteraak

I think we all win from the competition. It appears to me that the electrics are finally becoming competition for the venerable Honda 2hp

I agree. I like the competition, and I like seeing local US companies like EP getting into the game, good for all of us.


I have so many things to winterize every year I really don't want another gas engine to deal with. Plus I've always disliked the "spin 180 degrees to reverse" with the Honda, the electrics all have a regular reverse (I don't mind spinning the OB so much when actually reversing, it's when you - or the admiral - suddenly realizes they're coming hauling in somewhere that it's nice to hit reverse and slow down quickly and mellowly).

[Tillsbury]

When you say “dinghy” is yours inflatable or not? They keep quiet about power output but it’s going to be significantly less than the e-propulsion spirit or the new torqueedo 1003, both of which have very similar power. In an inflatable it’s going to struggle with any load at all, or anything other than flat calm. My e-propulsion spirit is great, but it certainly isn’t any more powerful than my old Honda 2hp. Last week bringing three people back against tide and 15-20kts that had suddenly picked up some quite choppy water it was at the limit of what it could do comfortably, and I wouldn’t have wanted any less power.

In a hard dinghy on a flat lake I’m sure it’d be great.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

When you say “dinghy” is yours inflatable or not? They keep quiet about power output but it’s going to be significantly less than the e-propulsion spirit or the new torqueedo 1003, both of which have very similar power.

Walker Bay 285ST, so hard dinghy with the inflatable tubes around the sides. EP Carry's website claims their motor will get it going 3.5 knots with a full 600# load. Have never had an outboard on it so don't know what a regular Honda 2hp would get it going at, 3.5 knots it definitely faster than I row it


Speed isn't everything but it is a pretty big consideration for me, well speed and cargo moving ability. I'm less worried about range as I don't plan on motoring around for hours at a time, this is more for easy shots to and from shore from the anchorage with gear (going to cabin) or big dog (going to shore to walk).



Torqueedo 1003 is $400 more (not extravagant difference, I don't want to cheap out on this and not get the right thing) but also quite a bit heavier at 31-32 pounds depending on shaft length.


What kind of dinghy are you running your e-propulsion spirit in? I was not familiar with it, looks nice... 42 pounds though, that's a step up in weight for sure. I take it you're happy with it? Where did you buy it? One thing for me is EP Carry is ~2 1/2 hours from my cruising grounds, nice to have a local company if I have issues.


Thanks for the input, I'm seeing there are more options out there than I first thought.

[john61ct]

Anyone know the range, even if optimistic, hard dinghy on a dead flat lake and following breeze?

[basssears]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Anyone know the range, even if optimistic, hard dinghy on a dead flat lake and following breeze?

Know? Not first hand.

But according to their "calculator":
https://www.electricpaddle.com/calculator.html
... claims for my 9.5' hard dinghy 3.5nm at full throttle 5.2nm at half throttle.

[gmakhs]

I am.pretty sure it's better than torqueedo since the motor is out of the water if it doesn't over heat .
But I can't find technical details on their website about the wattage of the motor .
Price wise both torqueedo and that one are expensive and they haven't think the most important feature they can add yet .(but that's normal.since they are not made and designed from.real.sailors .)

[basssears]

One thing I learned by reading this thread on Sailing Anarchy (not my favorite forum but...):
eleictric outboard for a dinghy - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums


... is that the lower end is a wear item, good for 100 hours and then needs to be replaced. Only $80, but still, if the company goes out of business or something you're kind of stuck...

[gmakhs]

Originally Posted by basssears

... is that the lower end is a wear item, good for 100 hours and then needs to be replaced. Only $80, but still, if the company goes out of business or something you're kind of stuck...

80 every 100 hours adds up very quickly.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

80 every 100 hours adds up very quickly.

Not necessarily, depends on your use.


That's why I get so much from these discussions, it helps refine my thinking as far as what I want.


In my current life I probably put 40-50 hours a year on the auxiliary in my Gulf 32, so 100 hours is a long time... years... on that auxiliary. I bet I wouldn't put 10 hours a year on the outboard. But that's because of my use pattern, which is less overall use and less frequent use than, say, a full time cruiser. A bottom end every 5-10 years for me isn't bad, if you use your dinghy an hour or two a day then it's $80 every few months, different story.



I will always be leaving this outboard to sit for months at a time, which is an issue as far as carbs etc and why I like the zero maintenance aspect of electric. A full time cruiser, who might go through bottom ends pretty rapidly, doesn't have to worry about that aspect with a gas outboard because they're using it all the time.


I'll be charging this with solar, so my operating expenses once I've purchased will be $0. I wonder if a typical gas outboard costs more than $0.80 / hour to run in the end after gas, oil, plugs etc (not going to include maintenance expenses because those could happen with an electric too)?

[fatherchronica]

Acceleration is sometimes important, like timing a beach landing between waves, But the two times we have been upside down, by really small waves actually, was under oar power. But I imagine that even a very modest electric outboard on anything other than a kayak would accelerate faster than I did the first time I was flipped about 25 years ago and last time was about 4 years ago and I expect it now, I am old. On a little side note, the most recent incident was in my home designed and dockside and beach built nesting 12' dinghy that has 2 Lexan windows in the floor, and we were able to see right where Pinka, our elderly Feist Terrier, was bobbing in her lifejacket beneath the inverted hull.

[Montanan]

The bottom end wearing out is likely a matter of what I would consider to be premature gear wear, probably induced by similarly premature shaft seal failure. Once water infiltrates into the lower end lubrication one should expect rapid degradation of the lubricant and the load parts, not dissimilar to the water entrainment into the bottom ends of outboard 2 or four stroke engine powered drives. I no longer use the term motor for outboard machines, because there is a distinction between an engine and a motor. Water infiltration into an electric motor or motor controller would become a rapid failure mechanism, especially highly conductive and more corrosive salt water. A machine which has its motors and controls mounted out of the water would seem to avail largely avoiding such potential failure modes. But direct drive motors schemes simplify power transmission dramatically and usually enhance efficiency and reduced weight, size and costs considerably.

As a designer and manufacturer of electric motors and controls, I can't see why an electric drive propeller should not last as long as an engine powered propeller mechanism. And the electric motor itself should far outlast any engine and not require any maintenance.

The motors we develop for eBuses and eTrucks are required to operate submerged one meter in water, not that they will be operated that way in real use but just because they will frequently be exposed to water when traveling roads, but I suppose they may infrequently cross a flooded stretch of roadway.

From a product design perspective it would be incredibly easy to just swap out the engine of a standard outboard machine for an electric motor, keeping the entire transmission and drive mechanism. But then there is no need for a neutral or reversing gear mechanism with an electric motor, unlike an engine which can not be readily run in reverse or stopped and started instantly so the power train part of the lower end could be simplified and have costs reduced. For prototype and proof of concept purposes we have routinely performed such rapid swapping, on motorcycles, bicycles, scooters, chainsaws, utility vehicles, lawnmowers [walk behind and zero turn type], power washers, etc. but then one gets serious and looks at how one would redesign the entire system once the constraints of the engine are eliminated and that is when the machines are enabled to excel without all the limitations of legacy factors.

Albeit, for a displacement boat or a dinghy intended to be used in slow propulsion mode, [non-planning] a high torque propeller would be optimal. Large diameter and high pitch with low rpm; think tugboat like. Torque being a function of current [amperage], length of conductor in the motor [i.e. turn count of the windings] and / or gear ratios and of the load applying device [the propeller].

[polaris2.11]

watersnake. $100. wheel chair battery 35 Ah, 20 lbs. $50. (buy two). cheap. works good on our dink for a year of cruising so far. i still row, but the motor extends range and helps against wind or current.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The bottom end wearing out is likely a matter of what I would consider to be premature gear wear, probably induced by similarly premature shaft seal failure.

My understanding (from that SA forum thread) that this is by design water lubed so not a seal failure but planned wear item to avoid need for gear oil / seals etc.