Worth moving halyards? Or just keep them at the mast base?

[Marathon1150]

We have two boats. One requires going to the mast to raise the main and to place a cringle on the reef horn when reefing. The other has everything in the cockpit and uses single line reefing.

I should add that not long after buying the first boat I installed a clutch and extra long halyard to bring the main halyard to the cockpit. Within a year I had moved it back.

I prefer going to the mast to raise and lower the main, as well as to reef. As a previous post points out, it is easier to see what is going on at the mast (unless you don't have a dodger), and there is less friction in the halyard to deal with. These were the two reasons for moving the main halyard back to the mast. I replaced the original mast winch with a self-tailing model which made everything that much easier again.

The single line reefing is challenging to get right and the line loads up with friction - the main has blocks on the luff and I have added Antal low friction rings to the leach but its still a grunt to put in a reef. I also find the cockpit harder to work in than at the foot of the mast.

One project high on the priority list for the boat with everything led to the cockpit is to change the single line reefing system to a two line system. Fortunately there are two spare clutches in the cockpit (its possible that a previous owner thought single line reefing would be better than two lines).

And as noted by other posters, a larger boat is usually more stable than a smaller one so it is not as hairy going to the mast. And even without Granny bars its possible on our one boat to get wedged into the shrouds for stability. We of course wear PFDs all the time and if offshore, tethers.

[billdre]

I've noticed that most of the replies to this thread have used single line reefing. My experience with two line reefing is very different. All my lines go to the cockpit because as I've gotten older I don't really want to be out on deck any more than necessary. With two line reefing you have excellent control of the reef. Lines in the cockpit is simply a matter of a good line storage system. My cockpit is never cluttered with lines. But everything comes to the cockpit including outhaul, vang control and Cunningham. Combined with a stack-pack arrangement and a downhaul on the main I can hoist, reef and drop the sail completely. Yes, it takes more effort to raise the sail and some skill in working with the lazy jacks but the benefits for me are far beyond the little extra effort it takes. I makes single handing a breeze. Literally.

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by billdre

I've noticed that most of the replies to this thread have used single line reefing. My experience with two line reefing is very different.

I am planning to convert the single line reefing system on one of our boats to two line reefing. I would be very grateful for your advice regarding how to best do that.

I've figured out what to do with the line on the leech but I am not sure about the line on the luff. The luff has reefing blocks sewn on at each of the two reef points, but I am not sure if it is worthwhile keeping those rather than simply attaching the end of the line to the cringle. Advice appreciated.

[sagablu]

Regardless of where your lines are led to, you would save yourself a lot of trouble by reefing early. Like you, I learned lesson the hard way. If you even think you need to reef, do it. The downside is you lose a little speed. For better than the alternatives

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

I am planning to convert the single line reefing system on one of our boats to two line reefing. I would be very grateful for your advice regarding how to best do that.



I've figured out what to do with the line on the leech but I am not sure about the line on the luff. The luff has reefing blocks sewn on at each of the two reef points, but I am not sure if it is worthwhile keeping those rather than simply attaching the end of the line to the cringle. Advice appreciated.

How is the downhaul/tack line lead to each tack cringle? And will the tack line be lead to the cockpit or secured at the mast?

[Clivevon]

I am not sure about the line on the luff. The luff has reefing blocks sewn on at each of the two reef points, but I am not sure if it is worthwhile keeping those rather than simply attaching the end of the line to the cringle. Advice appreciated.

I had luff reefing lines fitted when I changed to leading everything back to the cockpit. In my case, a short length of webbing goes through the reef cringle ring. The webbing has a larger stainless steel ring stitched into each end so it cannot be removed from the sail. The luff reefing pennant is shackled onto one of the larger rings. We have three reefs so three separate reefing pennants.

In your case I guess the block on the sail doubled the length of the reefing pennant so as to synchronise reefing the luff & the leach with the single line system? You dont need to do that with a 2 line system so the block is not necessary. You can attach the pennant direct to the sail. The pennant will be much shorter that way.

[Clivevon]

Should have explained - my reefing cringles go through the sail.

[billdre]

Marathon,
I added a reefing block to my luff reef point, so you are ahead of the game. Keep them, start the line from some point below where the reef will end up. In my case, I put a pad eye on the mast just below where the boom attaches. The line runs from there around the block at the reef point back down to the turning block at the base of the mast and then back to the cockpit. I wanted to add some additional force advantage to the line that the block(pulley) gives. Once pulled down and tight I can pull the halyard up against it eliminating the need for attaching the ring to a horn on the boom. It's now the easiest part of reefing, little to no resistance. Since my leech lines also come back to the cockpit that has more resistance and often takes easing the line around the first turn at end of the boom. So that's what I did and why.

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

I am planning to convert the single line reefing system on one of our boats to two line reefing. I would be very grateful for your advice regarding how to best do that.

I've figured out what to do with the line on the leech but I am not sure about the line on the luff. The luff has reefing blocks sewn on at each of the two reef points, but I am not sure if it is worthwhile keeping those rather than simply attaching the end of the line to the cringle. Advice appreciated.

Here it is in pictures, this should help.


M

[Marathon1150]

Many thanks to all for the super useful advice regarding a switch from single to double line reefing.

We have two boats - one has reefing horns and rings on webbing on the luff, and the halyard and reefing lines all at the mast. I added a very deep 3rd reef point on that mainsail (9.8oz dacron) in lieu of a storm trysail. It has worked very well and I much prefer that set up.

The second boat is the one I am asking about. It does not have a winch on the mast so everything will come back to the cockpit as it does now with the single line reef set up. But the latter has some serious friction issues, hence my interest in changing it to double line reefing, but because of no winch at the mast, both lines will need to come back to the cockpit. From the various suggestions in these very helpful points "I can see the way".

Though I would prefer to use reef horns at the mast, not having a halyard winch there would make my preferred approach harder on this boat.



Many thanks again. I love this forum.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by captmikem

Here it is in pictures, this should help.


M

Mike, I must be getting senile but I don't understand the advantage of that method of tying the reef outhaul line to the boom. Could you elaborate on it's advantage for me?

Jim

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Mike, I must be getting senile but I don't understand the advantage of that method of tying the reef outhaul line to the boom. Could you elaborate on it's advantage for me?

Jim

Hey Jim! I think I may be the one going senile..
Good catch!
I saw that in the drawing but was in a bit of a hurry so used it.
You know me, I like simple, a bowline around the boom is better but this diagram I pulled off the net happened to have it tied this odd way, not my preference, just put it up to get the idea across. I must be getting lazy in my old age.

for the OP: Ideally a pad eye for the bitter end, but bowline is simpler and tends to self adjust when heaving up tight on the reef line. Also I like it because when the reef line starts to wear at the cringle it is easy to shorten it and move the wear.

All the best to you and Ann.

Mike

[dfelsent]

I’ve always done it the other way. Down from the cringle, around the boom, between the boom and sail then a bowline around the standing part.
I’ll have to try it the way in the pic. I wonder if there is an advantage related to pushing the bulk of the sail to the side and avoiding pinching it.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by dfelsent

I’ve always done it the other way. Down from the cringle, around the boom, between the boom and sail then a bowline around the standing part.
I’ll have to try it the way in the pic. I wonder if there is an advantage related to pushing the bulk of the sail to the side and avoiding pinching it.

That (pushing the bulk to the side) must be the alleged advantage, and without actually trying it I'm unable to guess if there is anything to gain.

So, if you do try, please report what you observe. I'm always ready to learn new tricks...keeps me from becoming an ol' dog!

Jim

[dfelsent]

Mid to late May I will duly report.