What training do you need to cruise?

[surazo]

As several in this chat .I ma

[lo2jones]

This issue comes up once a year or more: “an experienced captain etc, or sailing school.” The up side to the sailing school route, is that you have a structured curriculum that you can review and make sure all the bases are covered. If someone takes this route it is important to review the list of standards and make sure this school/instructors have covered everything or has a real excuse for not doing so.

[Ahmet Erkan]

OP Brian asked for advice/experiences on foreign harbor entry procedures. I was also hoping there would be a few posts advising such as :
Where to take your passport to get it stamped before departure, where to anchor or dock with the yellow quarantine flag hoisted upon entry to a foreign port, OK to make a broadcast on channel 16 to request a custom's inspection? etc etc etc. Of course every country is going to have different rules for all this, so is there a book recommendation? How about shotguns, rifles, pistols, ammo on board? Hard to decide which questions to ask when there are thousands of questions :smile: Maybe a few of our experienced skippers can pick the items that are typically required by the authorities in most countries, and make recommendations?

[CaptFrankM]

How much formal training do you need to perform heart surgery? ABSOLUTELY NONE! Just find someone, cut them open, and start rooting around until you figure it out. Hey, people did heart surgery for centuries before anyone started doing that whole "medical school" scam!

OK, so I am being sarcastic. It is absolutely true that you need no formal training to go cruising - but no one does it safely without years of experience and training. Yes - both. What's the difference between experience and training? Experience is when you damage your own stuff, training is when someone explains how they damaged their gear.

I do agree that there are not a lot of schools out there teaching long-term cruising. If you think about it, the answer is obvious - that is a niche and the niche is VERY small. Think about the number of people you know who own boats of all types - now consider just those who MIGHT SOMEDAY actually do long-term cruising. If it is 1 in 100, I would be surprised.

So, if you are going to look into training, find a school that SPECIALIZES in long-term cruising. Don't just go to the local school and say "teach me to sail" - find the schools that have a track record of teaching OCEAN passage making. In the ASA system, that course is 108, and, last time I checked, there were fewer than a dozen schools that even advertised that they were running 108 classes. I know there are equivalent RYA and US Sailing course designators.

Also, if you are going to do the 108, start with that school - if they are teaching to that level, most of their coursework will be focused on that level. Taking a class on a lake in Nebraska may be fun, but it is not going to get you onto the ocean, any more than driving a go-kart at Kiddieworld is going to prep you for the Daytona 500. Go-karts are fun and, if that's what you want to do, it's great - but...

Finally, one more comment, regarding getting experience. You can go sailing all you want with other people - but you have no way of knowing if the experience you are getting is useful - or if you are learning how to kill yourself. Just because someone owns a boat, doesn't make that a good place. The worst part is that until you have enough knowledge (either from training, experience, or (hopefully) a combination of both) you have very little ability to judge whether what you are doing is good or bad.

Follow your own gut.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Brian Cope

I have been sailing for about a year and a half in the Chesapeake Bay on a 25' McGregor I purchased. My plan is to upgrade to a 35' to 45' boat to live aboard or semi live aboard (in addition to a camper on a seasonal site) in a few years. I have taken a Boat US boating safety course. However, I learned to sail from reading, watching videos, and trial and error. I am pretty comfortable sailing, handling the boat, and basic navigation. I am just curious what training I would need. I don't want to pay for a basic course if I already have those skills. Is there a good place to look at the trainings available and compare what is available with what skills you need? Also, is there a basic that will be required to get insurance, use marinas, or enter other countries/areas?Brian

You don't need professional training to cruise, you need experience. Just take your present boat and challenge yourself to ever growing distances and NEW destinations. The NEW destinations will get you to learn to plan your route in detail, get the forecasted weather, plan your meals & water, boat preparation, and learn from your mistakes and omissions. The longer the route the better.

Those who race learn to extract the last tenth of a knot out of their sails for the race duration which rarely is longer than a day. A cruiser learns to route plan in detail, gather knowledge about his destination and all the essentials he may need over the duration, keep the BOAT and CREW in operational form for the entire voyage, and avoiding unnecessary risks...very important for long passages, particularly offshore, where there is no assistance available or spare parts. Cruising passages to foreign countries expands these tasks to include insurance, customs, immigration, communications, banking, etc.

Good luck.

[HarryVandermeer]

I upgraded from a Mac26X to a Hunter44 3 years ago. We then started cruising full time on the US east coast (ME to FL). I was initially denied insurance from BoatUS (Geico) which was my insurance for the Mac for 20 years. They told me a 44 ft boat was too much of a jumping. They would only insure me up to 36 ft. The broker who was involved in the purchase of the hunter connected me with an insurance broker, who gave me a better police at a lower price compared to what BoatUS had initially quoted.

Regarding boat handling: manouverability is very different for the Mac, particularly regarding docking to get fuel and in Marinas, particularly when it is windy and there is a current. I read all could, watched video's and then practiced, practiced and practiced again. Sailing a big boat is actually easier. If you can sail a Mac you can sail anything....

Go for it and have fun.....

[Captain Graham]

Originally Posted by Brian Cope

I have been sailing for about a year and a half in the Chesapeake Bay on a 25' McGregor I purchased. My plan is to upgrade to a 35' to 45' boat to live aboard or semi live aboard (in addition to a camper on a seasonal site) in a few years. I have taken a Boat US boating safety course. However, I learned to sail from reading, watching videos, and trial and error. I am pretty comfortable sailing, handling the boat, and basic navigation. I am just curious what training I would need. I don't want to pay for a basic course if I already have those skills. Is there a good place to look at the trainings available and compare what is available with what skills you need? Also, is there a basic that will be required to get insurance, use marinas, or enter other countries/areas?


Brian

When you move up to a larger sailboat the actual sailing in open water is about the same as a smaller sailboat.
You would most liking just need to know how the systems work and how to handle your new larger sailboat in a good blow.
The biggest issue is handling her is tight quarters like around the marina, slips and docks.

I would do the following
1. Learn how to handle your sailboat under power.
Most likely you will have an inboard and knowing how to do a standing turn and using prop walk & prop wash to you advantage.
Practice this in a good protected area with lots of room.
2. Learn how to dock your sailboat.
I start with practicing on a long dock not a slip.
This way if you make a mistake you will not hit another boat.
Here is a video explaining items 1&2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoGMAEjiHmU&t=43s

3. Learn how to sail your boat in good weather.
Nothing special just learn how to get the sails up & down, reefing, sail changing. practice all points of sail etc.
4. Learn how to handle your new sailboat in bad weather.
Once you have mastered the above move to bad weather sailing.
I like to go out just after a small bad weather front has already passed.
So you will have high winds and waves but every hour it is getting nicer.
I would recommend you do this in an area when if you get tired you can get to protected waters quickly.
5. I would also recommend you spend a few nights on your sailboat during a storm in your slip before going on a cruise.

[Dave_R]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I and my wife took, at different times, the ASA cruising courses. Little value imho. The best perhaps only useful training is to just get out there and do it. That’s what we are doing. No training course will teach you what to do if you pick up a crab pot, back over the dinghy tow bridle, pick up another crab pot on the dinghy tow bridle while gybing downwind in 20kts, how to use two anchors in a tiiiight anchorage (instructors half the time don’t even let you dock the boat), etc etc etc. We’ve learned all these things the hard way lol

This exemplifies my favorite quote on sailing—“sailing is a well-managed set of accidents.”

-Tinho Dornellas-

[jalmberg]

I’d say insurance will be the big stumbling block. Things have changed a lot in the last few years. You may need to have your skills tested by a certified captain, for example. Best is to talk to insurance companies FIRST. Good luck!

[KneadingWater]

>>>I upgraded from a Mac26X to a Hunter44 3 years ago. We then started cruising full time on the US east coast (ME to FL). I was initially denied insurance from BoatUS (Geico) which was my insurance for the Mac for 20 years. They told me a 44 ft boat was too much of a jumping.<<<


I went from coastal sea kayaking (300 mile races/15K cumulative miles), to an 18.5' SandPiper 4 years ago, to a 44.5' full keel Island Packet (2 years ago). She is kept in Norfolk on the Chesapeake.



I did take ASA 101 to 106 over one week, on one boat, on one Journey down the gulf coast of FL. It was helpful. But I am not sure I had to show evidence that I ever took the courses for insurance.



I insured through Allstate, until recently when I needed a rider for the Bahamas (not their yet, but we got a late start and we are staged in FL).



I agree with much of the advice. I am a slow learner, and I make a lot of mistakes. So, I am not one to say just go sailing (but, I kind of did). I just wanted to say that for me, insurance was the lease of my concerns.



Watching folks argue (good natured, usually) in this forum is very helpful! Lean on their experience.



KW



Good luck!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

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A diesel course might help if you are not familiar with the engine.




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Good advice in this post in general.


However, the ONLY diesel course that makes ANY sense, if you want or need one, is one that uses the ACTUAL engine in the boat you have.


I have a Universal M25 in my boat, and taking a course on a Yanmar engine would do me no good whatsoever.


Choose wisely, good luck.


PS - I moved from a C22 (1983-87) to a C25 (1987-98) to our current C34. Advice about knowing your boat inside and out is paramount. One of the very first things I did in 1998 was draw my own wiring diagram. Amazing how much I learned and found errors in others' diagrams for my boat.

[Paul Annapolis]

What have you learned from the various responses and how have they helped you..or not? What do you think you'd like to do? Do you have any further questions?

[IT_Mike]

I think 'heart surgery' might be a bit excessive, but picture a teenager who's only ever driven in a parking lot deciding they want to solo cross-country.

Could they do it? Sure, probably.
Are they going to have a few mishaps? Almost certainly
Would they benefit from a driving class before embarking on their adventure? Probably
Will the driving class cover everything they need to be successful? Unlikely

Safe travels, whatever you decide

[Paul Annapolis]

This is a very reasonable response that seems to suggest that real training is going to be worthwhile in some way and is probably a good course, to use a pun.

[BeneG]

Originally Posted by kavw

First aid course, fibreglass repair, small engine repair, fishing knowledge, shore based navigation -non gps-, sewing…lots of skills where a few short courses can be very beneficial. As for the rest, just lots of sailing and short trips, keep pushing the envelope a little bit. Have fun.

Is there a course/ courses that you know of that cover these sort of skills? At least at a “get familiar with level”? I can only personally check off the fishing box.