What training do you need to cruise?

[JPA Cate]

Brian, you can learn more by sailing as crew on different boats in your area. If you've a mind to, you can determine what kind of a skipper you'd prefer to be. And that knowledge could tend to make you want the RYA kind of schooling, which would make you a more knowledgeable sailor. However, it is also true that many cruisers have started out with and acquire few skills along the way. They stand out to those who got their starts as pick up crew on beer can races, or ocean races. You see them motoring downwind; or with sails trimmed wrong for the situation.

I see you have been sailing in the Chesapeake. That is protected water, and the ocean is a different kettle of fish. You'll see, if you get involved in ocean racing, perhaps there's a Midget Ocean Racing Circuit you could get into or a team to get onto. Most likely, you'll learn more, and faster.



Ann

[rwidman]

From my observation of other boaters on the water, I would say that absolutely no training is needed to cruise.

That said, if you are smart enough to know that training is a good idea, I say go for it.


Many of us can learn from books "Chapman Piloting" is very comprehensive. Study that entire book and you will be pretty well trained.

[Peeew]

I agree that you can learn all you need by purchasing a boat and sailing it, gradually increasing the range and widening your skills. But I also suggest for a few reasons to do some chartering trips, perhaps with a part time captain/instructor. You can complete a number of ASA courses in a week which might make your insurance company happier. Also you can add some bigger boat sailing to your resume’ which again will help any insurance application. And since we all miss some things or simply don’t practice them enough ( MOB, heaving to etc) it will likely add to your confidence and make the sailing more fun.

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by Brian Cope

I have taken a Boat US boating safety course. However, I learned to sail from reading, watching videos, and trial and error. I am pretty comfortable sailing, handling the boat, and basic navigation. I am just curious what training I would need. I don't want to pay for a basic course if I already have those skills. Is there a good place to look at the trainings available and compare what is available with what skills you need? Also, is there a basic that will be required to get insurance, use marinas, or enter other countries/areas?

One of the most difficult aspects of sailing is going from a skill level where you've completed ASA 101, 103, 104 and have some time on the water to a skill level where you know how to proficiently handle being caught in a 50 knot cell on a passage, managing large waves in a gale, dragging in an anchorage, etc. ASA doesn't teach it, and going out by yourself in such conditions without the knowledge to handle it doesn't sound wise.

Maybe booking a passage with 59 north?
https://www.59-north.com/

On a long enough trip, the weather will find you.

I wouldn't advise trying to just find a local captain unless you have first hand knowledge of their credentials. There is very little preventing unqualified people from holding themselves out as sailing instructors and the two times we tried doing this it did not go well.

[flightlead404]

I and my wife took, at different times, the ASA cruising courses. Little value imho. The best perhaps only useful training is to just get out there and do it. That’s what we are doing. No training course will teach you what to do if you pick up a crab pot, back over the dinghy tow bridle, pick up another crab pot on the dinghy tow bridle while gybing downwind in 20kts, how to use two anchors in a tiiiight anchorage (instructors half the time don’t even let you dock the boat), etc etc etc. We’ve learned all these things the hard way lol

[requiem]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

how to use two anchors in a tiiiight anchorage (instructors half the time don’t even let you dock the boat), etc etc etc. We’ve learned all these things the hard way lol

I am rather sad, and yet not particularly surprised, to read things like this. Schools that don't teach effectively only water down the value of the certifications, and unfortunately someone just getting into the sport has few ways to effectively evaluate a school.

My own take is that quality training is quite valuable, as it certainly should cover things like night sailing, different anchoring configurations, close-quarters docking, and the like.

[Celestialsailor]

"If ya get lost, just pull in and ask for directions...learn'd that drivin the Saratoga"
...Captain Ron

[A CheeseHead]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Brian, you can learn more by sailing as crew on different boats in your area. If you've a mind to, you can determine what kind of a skipper you'd prefer to be. And that knowledge could tend to make you want the RYA kind of schooling, which would make you a more knowledgeable sailor. However, it is also true that many cruisers have started out with and acquire few skills along the way. They stand out to those who got their starts as pick up crew on beer can races, or ocean races. You see them motoring downwind; or with sails trimmed wrong for the situation.

I see you have been sailing in the Chesapeake. That is protected water, and the ocean is a different kettle of fish. You'll see, if you get involved in ocean racing, perhaps there's a Midget Ocean Racing Circuit you could get into or a team to get onto. Most likely, you'll learn more, and faster.



Ann

And she's as right as can be. I learned racing by dinghies on an inland lake. Then, 3 years later, I figured bigger boats and bigger water provided bigger and more interesting "issues". So I made my way to St. Pete and what was then the SORC (in 1971), and volunteered as crew. Six weeks later, some 600+ miles of racing, three crossings of the Gulf Stream ... and I was hooked. I showed up in Chicago with a decent introduction and starred racing there. 50 years later, and the people I cruised with for the past decade sold the boat ... so I am back to teaching sailing to beginners on the inland lake I started on.

So go racing, young man. Volunteer as crew on big water. Get wet, make mistakes, watch others make mistakes. You'll acquire more skills faster than any course, you'll be a better sailor, and you'll even become a seaman.

Follow Ann's advice!

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Brian Cope

I have been sailing for about a year and a half in the Chesapeake Bay on a 25' McGregor I purchased. My plan is to upgrade to a 35' to 45' boat to live aboard or semi live aboard (in addition to a camper on a seasonal site) in a few years. I have taken a Boat US boating safety course. However, I learned to sail from reading, watching videos, and trial and error. I am pretty comfortable sailing, handling the boat, and basic navigation. I am just curious what training I would need. I don't want to pay for a basic course if I already have those skills. Is there a good place to look at the trainings available and compare what is available with what skills you need? Also, is there a basic that will be required to get insurance, use marinas, or enter other countries/areas? Brian

Brian, you don't need "training" to cruise, just experience navigating and caring for your boat, which is no small thing. Some initial thoughts for you-

1. Are you singlehanding or have a partner or family? This will drive your decision making.

2. The difference between a 35 and 45 foot boat is HUGE in costs, complexity, etc. I agree with the general wisdom to get the smallest boat possible that will fit your needs.

3. Your cruising grounds and goals also inform all your decision making. Will you stay in the NE, move South and focus on the Gulf, go to the South Pacific, Europe, Asia, or is it your goal to circumnavigate? What experience and equipment you need will vary depending upon your cruising goals and lifestyle.

4. Plan on spending 5X more time and money than you expect outfitting your boat and cruising locally to get experience with your boat, cruising (anchoring, docking, power management, provisioning, etc, etc) and fixing/modifying the things on your boat that will inevitably fail, be inadequate, drive you crazy, or discover that you MUST have. Much, much harder to do all this while cruising though it is possible.

Good luck to you and welcome to the cruising lifestyle!

[sinnerman]

There are no "requirements" to go cruising. YouTube is full of video channels of people who pick up an old boat, fix it up, then head out.

There are no "legal or licensing" requirements for the skipper unless you want to go charter a boat and sail it without a captain; and in those cases they would probably require going out with you on the first day to make sure you know what you are doing...

Most marinas will want proof of boat insurance to park your boat in their slips, although not all will ask, even though they have the requirement.

To go cruising, you will need to know your boat very well, have spares and know how to do the repairs. A diesel course might help if you are not familiar with the engine.

Local knowledge of where you are going, and how to get there can be found online through numerous sites and blogs.

I have found that the US Power Squadron (now called "Americas Boating Club") has excellent courses online. I have taken the online Boat Handling course and am slowly working my way through their Weather course.

https://americasboatingclub.org/learn/available-online

They have additional courses which require either require classroom attendance or are held via video . The marine electrical course was very good. I learned a lot of new things in this course that helped me on my boat..

Cheers

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Gard

...You need absolutely zero formal training! Any person could take a large sailboat with zero experience and learn as they go around the world (slowly) - and quite successfully so...

I would only agree to this if it is amended to say "Many people can sail with zero experience." I think that a lot of people on the water and on this forum have a stupendous degree of common sense and intuitive feel for boats and the water. I think these folks grossly underestimate how utterly lacking in these skills some other folks can be. They would be a clear and present danger out on the water with a 40 foot boat. Just hang out in the BVI for a week or two and watch the bare boaters - some complete chuckleheads doing unbelievably dumb things.
The thing is to objectively assess your own skills, strengths, and weaknesses. If you feel more "at home" on your little boat than you do on a sidewalk, if you can intuitively navigate without a map, if you can repair a lawnmower engine without a manual and do your own plumbing and electrical work - you don't need no friggin' courses - just go. Otherwise, take some courses. Even if most of it is not news to you, you will likely hear it in a way that is a bit different than what you know, which is helpful. And if that coursework prevents one major error, it could be a net cost savings to you.

[Fullmoon]

Originally Posted by Brian Cope

I have been sailing for about a year and a half in the Chesapeake Bay on a 25' McGregor I purchased. My plan is to upgrade to a 35' to 45' boat to live aboard or semi live aboard (in addition to a camper on a seasonal site) in a few years. I have taken a Boat US boating safety course. However, I learned to sail from reading, watching videos, and trial and error. I am pretty comfortable sailing, handling the boat, and basic navigation. I am just curious what training I would need. I don't want to pay for a basic course if I already have those skills. Is there a good place to look at the trainings available and compare what is available with what skills you need? Also, is there a basic that will be required to get insurance, use marinas, or enter other countries/areas?


Brian

The first boat that I bought was a used Hunter 44 Deck Solon when I was 65. The only experience I had was 3 trips to the BVI where I crewed on 42 footers with a friend in the Sunsail charter system. I bought the boat in Tampa and with my friend and "girlfriend" sailed around to GA and added solar panels and a few upgrades. We then sailed from GA to the BVI and lived on it for a couple of years. We were on our way back to the US when we got an offer and sold it while docked in PR, to someone from Tampa. We did take the 1 and 2 sailing courses because my girlfriend, who is now my wife, had no real training and I saw a lot of men yelling at their counterparts while trying to dock or catch a mooring ball. I wanted us to speaking the same language and not yelling at each other. Also, and most important, I wanted her to be able to come back and rescue me if I fell overboard. If you plan to do any night sailing, I highly recommend you study up on recognition of lighting and having radar. My best training was chartering in the BVI. Daily catching mooring balls, anchoring in crowded fields and docking at crowded docks gave me great experiences. Unless you are racing, sailing is not that complicated. That comment will get a rise out of the hardcore who would like you to believe that they have mastered the great mystery. It was a great boat and I have great memories of my great adventure. Yes I ran hard aground, yes I ripped a main sail in a pop up squall and yes I dragged an anchor in a crowed field. The most important thing to remember is to respect the water because it can kill you in an instant. Now go and enjoy.

[Paul Annapolis]

As a professional captain, coach and consultant who has helped over a thousand sailors and powerboaters at various levels and with varying goals, I of course highly suggest training. In all cases I have helped these mariners save time, money and hassle and in a few cases have certainly kept them from injury, financial and even disaster. There are many good opinions and suggestions presented here and some that I feel are worth only what you have paid for them. I will be pleased to provide you with a free consultation and discuss your needs and experience but as Bismarck said "only a fool learns from experience, the wise learn from the experience of others." Oscar Wilde said that the problem with experience is that the test comes first". I say that the only real investment one can make in a rapidly depreciating item such as a boat is to really learn how to be safe, and enjoy the boat in comfort from someone who has gained that experience as I have over tens of thousands of miles on hundreds of boats. There are many better sailors than am I but they don't always have the teaching and training skills I possess. I am pleased to be of assistance and ask you to visit www.foerfront.com and contact me for a supportive and candid discussion. I am based on the Chesapeake. Thanks Paul Foer Annapolis

[Howler]

It was only mentioned once, but I’d like to underline the importance of understanding onboard systems. Like you, I went from a MacGregor to several larger boats. It sounds like you have a good handle on sailing and I agree that experience on your own and/or with seasoned sailors is as valuable as classes for docking, rules of the road, etc. Docking is actually easier with a heavy displacement keelboat boat than the MacGregor with its water ballast and centerboard because there’s less windage, and you can use prop walk and rudder wash to help. Just remember to do everything as slowly as conditions permit and leave more room to glide in neutral than in the Mac.

One of the main differences between the !MacGregor and bigger cruisers is the systems. Diesel engines, electrical systems and plumbing systems fail and it’s important to know how to fix things. They also require more rigorous preventive maintenance and, depending where you cruise, winterization There are great books, YouTubes and even classes.

For systems maintenance, one idea that was effective for me was to pay a yard to maintain our systems the first time, but ask for extra time to explain what they’re doing. I took copious notes and photos and assembled them all into a manual, written in language I understand. That enabled increasingl autonomy going forward.

Some diesel manufacturers offer basic training for owners. “Marine Diesel Engines” by Nigel Calder is thorough. And maybe too in depth for your needs, but it’s a great referemce.

I like “The Boat Electrics Bible” by Andy Johnson.

I haven’t delved into plumbing books, other than Peggie (“the Headmistress”) Hall’s “Get Rid of Boat Odors”, aka potty training for boaters.

It’s really also good to spend a half day with each new boat slowly and methodically following every circuit and hose to try to see what they do, and to inspect them as you go. That applies to new boats as well as used, especially recent production boats. We had a surprising number of issues with a new Beneteau and later a new Dufour (who I hope are reading this) because of poor workmanship (e.g. loose hose clamps, poor electrical connections, missing gaskets, etc.). It’s also a good opportunity to map everything out for future reference if you don’t get reliable documentation with the boat.

Don’t get stressed by this, and you don’t have to be an expert at everything before you start cruising. It’s an ongoing education. I’ve been sailing for 57 years but still learn new things each year.

[GopherBaroque]

I'm a little surprised we are on page two of replies and no one mentioned the curriculum:


a) sail your new boat in familiar waters to get comfortable how the boat works
b) do deliberate trips to new waters to refine your techniques in a wider variety of conditions
c) do longer trips to work out kinks of being on that boat for a long period of time

The idea being to expand experience with breaks to reflect and refine before being committed to "no turning back".