New to larger displacement boats..

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

But the post also brings up a question I've always had: Is the owner/operator of a boat responsible for injuries or damages caused by excessive wakes thrown by his boat? In other words, if a small boat is anchored on a point, say, I dunno, fishing, and an obnoxious powerboater roars by and causes a fisherman in the small boat to fall and break his arm, is the powerboater liable?

I know you can take anything to court and try get damages, proving the powerboat wrong may be the difficult part.

[jamesdavis]

I agree wholeheartedly with Scot McPherson's concise comment.

And yes, I think any unobservant boater on the water, or discourteous/dangerous operator, should experience a penalty for his self-centered action(s).

Take the boats reg.# and contact the USCG, harbormaster, or both. I believe boaters should be self-policing by reporting unsafe incidents and or "captains".

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

But the post also brings up a question I've always had: Is the owner/operator of a boat responsible for injuries or damages caused by excessive wakes thrown by his boat? In other words, if a small boat is anchored on a point, say, I dunno, fishing, and an obnoxious powerboater roars by and causes a fisherman in the small boat to fall and break his arm, is the powerboater liable?

It's very well settled law that the vessel that creates a wake is liable for any damage it does. There is no difference legally between hitting another boat with the bow of your boat, and hitting it with your wake. They are both treated as a 'collision'. Proving it may be a bit harder, but the law is clear.

So smacking a rowing shell with a wake and cracking it in half could be a very expensive way to vent frustration at them being in your way. Also note that as rowed vessels they have ROW over a motor driven boat all the time. So even if they are in your way, they have rights.

[canyonbat]

Originally Posted by SV Bacchus

I know you can take anything to court and try get damages, proving the powerboat wrong may be the difficult part.

That has always been the problem. The wake usually takes a while to hit you then it takes a bit more time to pick yourself up or get yourself back out of the water. By the time you are clear headed enough to think about the guy that caused it, he is usually long gone. We used to tie up between two trees in a wakeless area back up a long narrow canyon. We had a "Wakeless Area!" sign we would hold up along with our camera as speeding boats came past. They usually slowed down and sometimes even apologized.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by ashedd

At 8 knots it has quite a wake and I enjoy watch how the university crew team handles it when they pass me. Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them.

There seem to be a lot of assumptions around the statement above. The OP never stated he was in a No Wake Zone when this occurred. He also never stated the distance from the scullers at the time of the pass either.

If he is not in a no wake zone and sufficient distance from another vessel (as dictated by the operating regulations of that state), then many are making a big deal out of nothing.

Example: State of Ct (US): No wake when less than 100 ft of a Dock, Pier, Float, anchored/moored vessel, shore, swimming area buoys.

There are, in fact, no published regulations about vessels underway, including self-powered vessels in the state of Ct. (I am using CT as an example because that is the regulation book I happened to have on hand right now). I'm not sure where the OP is located.

Yes, it is courteous to reduce wake for other vessels, especially when around very small, self power vessels. However, let's not go overboard vilifying the guy when we're not completely clear on details.

[jamesdavis]

As many others who've responded to this post have indicated--and to me--there appears to be no ambiguity in the OP's posted words. Again: "Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them."

[30West]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Hmmm...I admit to the same feelings as many have posted here at first, but then re-read the post and noticed the section bolded below.


"I must assume it's a full displacement hull. It's a 1957 Richardson Express Cruiser 40' with 12' beam. It's powered by a pair of gas V8's straight inboards. It idles in gear at 5 knots, nothing slower. I'd say 6 knots is the high limit of no wake, although this thing always kicks up some sort of wake. At 8 knots it has quite a wake and I enjoy watch how the university crew team handles it when they pass me. Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them."

Well, elite 8-man teams have averaged over 11-knots for a 2000-meter race, so they could be passing him, or trying to outrun his wake.

Someone once posted here that your wake is energy, and it came from your fuel tanks, and ultimately your wallet. The bigger the wake, the more it is costing you, another reason to keep it small.

[Scot McPherson]

While that's true about the size of the wake, a full displacement hull won't plane, a planning hull however although burning a lot more fuel to do it, can get to where you are going faster. I like this for smaller fishing/center console/downeaster vessels, but for larger vessels, I prefer lumbering at hull cruising speed using much less horsepower. Not a power boat, my 33 ft sailboat uses a 1/4 gallon of diesel per hour to cruise at 6 knots, and a 1/3rd gallon if I push it to 7 knots.


A 1/4 gallon is fantastic fuel consumption, and a full displacement power yacht owner can certainly benefit from that consumption level. Wouldn't it be nice to measure fuel consumption in 1 gallon or less per hour rather than how many 10s of gallons per hour?

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Shrew

There seem to be a lot of assumptions around the statement above. The OP never stated he was in a No Wake Zone when this occurred. He also never stated the distance from the scullers at the time of the pass either.

If he is not in a no wake zone and sufficient distance from another vessel (as dictated by the operating regulations of that state), then many are making a big deal out of nothing.

Example: State of Ct (US): No wake when less than 100 ft of a Dock, Pier, Float, anchored/moored vessel, shore, swimming area buoys.

There are, in fact, no published regulations about vessels underway, including self-powered vessels in the state of Ct. (I am using CT as an example because that is the regulation book I happened to have on hand right now). I'm not sure where the OP is located.

Yes, it is courteous to reduce wake for other vessels, especially when around very small, self power vessels. However, let's not go overboard vilifying the guy when we're not completely clear on details.

It doesn't matter if you are in a no wake zone or not. If your wake does damage to someone else's boat you are still liable for the repairs. Just like if you are doing 35mph in a 35mph zone and the trailer you are towing comes unhitched and wrecks someone's car. You can not defend yourself by saying 'but I was doing the speed limit.'

Btw your state law has bubkis to do with it btw. This is Federal Maritime Liability.

Rule 6 of the Inland Nav rules states that vessels "shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision." The courts have interpreted 'collision' to include colliding with your wake. You were going to fast in the conditions to prevent a collision by your wake, and thus violated rule 6.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ashedd

As the title says, I'm new to larger boats. I was perfectly happy with my little 20' cabin cruiser powered by an evinrude, but it basically was only useful for one person to use, as a 20' cabin cruise only has about 10' of deck space. Trying to wedge four chairs in that 10' for entertaining was a nightmare, especially if you're over six and a half feet tall like me. So I figured a 28' cabin cruiser would work better. More beam, more systems, larger aft deck. Plus a 28' isn't very likely to have a loud smelly outboard that everyone but me hates. Buying a new e-tec for the 20 footer was an option but not real cheap.

Flash forward to now... I looked at several 28' foot boats that I liked. Then the guy I rent moorage from tells me he's moving out of state and wants to sell me his boat. I resist but decide to take it at the last min before he moves. It was going to sit in the boathouse of the property he sold until someone bought the boat. So instead of a 28' boat I got a 40' wood express cruiser. Kept in a boat house it's whole life and with regular hull maintenance. I looked at plenty of rotten wood boats in the past, almost lost my screwdriver in the transom of one, but this one is solid. It's a planked boat so it seems much stronger than the plywood cabin cruiser I had/have.

I must assume it's a full displacement hull. It's a 1957 Richardson Express Cruiser 40' with 12' beam. It's powered by a pair of gas V8's straight inboards. It idles in gear at 5 knots, nothing slower. I'd say 6 knots is the high limit of no wake, although this thing always kicks up some sort of wake. At 8 knots it has quite a wake and I enjoy watch how the university crew team handles it when they pass me. Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them.

So far I seem to like cruising at 9-10 knots turning about 1500-1600 rpm and with a stern wave large enough to wake surf behind. At those speeds I can stand on the aft deck(which is huge) and I feel like I'm on a battleship. At 2500-2600 rpm I can get up into the teens, 15-16 knots, right on the edge of planning(or at least that's how it feels). 18 knots feel like a full plane. WOT(with minor tuning still required) gets me 23-24 knots and a wake I thought I'd never see behind a boat I'd ever operate. I think I may have seen info online(it's hard to find Richardson info) with a stated max speed in the upper 20's(like 29 knots). From what I can tell most these large wood cruisers are all alike, they have similar if not the same hull. My boat looks almost just like a Chris Craft Constellation.

So am I correct in assuming this is a full planning hull? I have trim tabs that keep blowing a fuse so they're not hooked up currently, not sure if they're up or down or i what. The tabs are on the list of repairs. I don't particularly like the way it steers on plane, it seems to wallow about. It'll roll over more than I'm comfortable with but that might just be the size I'm not used too. I had an Olympic cuddy that you could put in a turn at 50 knots and the gunwales would be on top of the water. If I ever saw that with the Richardson I think I would soil myself. Of course it's crappy to steer at low speed too, but I know that's relatively normal for a large deep V hull.

I was hoping the hull could work out ok at displacement speeds. I actually prefer to go slower, it allows me to walk around and do stuff while underway, and the fuel burn is lower. I don't know the fuel burn now but I'd expect it to be pretty bad.

Here is a pic of a pic. I need to take some nice pics this spring

Richardson made a nice hull. CC in that era made bay plows unless they where on a plane. Twin gas, I hope you have deep pockets.

[ashedd]

Thanks everyone for your input...

I'm not going to touch too much on the wake comments since my statements were blown out of proportion, likely my fault though. I've been operating boats for awhile, just not anything this large. You basically can't get "zero" wake from this thing. If I put one side in neutral and the other in fwd(like someone mentioned) I'll make 4.5 knots, and still with a small wake. I do what I can to limit my wake as best I can with the equipment I have to work with. The only way to completely accommodate every other watercraft I encounter is to come to a dead stop and let them pass, and I'm sorry but that's just not going to happen. This area is heavily patrolled by federal, state, and local law enforcement and they hand out tickets like candy. I've never been stopped, yelled at(via vhf etc), or ticketed for any unsafe operation of a vessel. There are commercial vessels and "cruise" ships that speed through this area without regard to other boaters and they get a free pass. I've literally spilled my drink all over myself after the wake of a cruise ship(100 passenger vessels) rocked my boat as it passed by. Luckily I was sitting down or I would have been thrown from my feet as well. I feel I'm being just as cautious as I need to be.

And for what it's worth... the crew team makes everyone in the shipping channel STOP while they line up and row down the lane during practice. Our only options are to stop or pass them outside the channel(where I feel they should be anyway) in waters that are charted as shallow as 3'. Once they get going they seem to be able to maintain 10 knots(which in itself is "speeding") and quickly pull away from me. I do more than about half the other boaters do to accommodate these guys, some just fly past them.

As soon as spring gets here the crew teams will be the better behaved people I encounter. When it warms up I'll have to deal with: Float planes, tour boats, pleasure boats(once a year boaters), paddle boards/kayaks(mostly rentals), canoes, sailboats(with races), people learning to sail, swimmers, electric rental boats, and people in inflatable pool toys with electric trolling motors.


I'm hoping gas won't be too too bad if I keep it slow. I'll see how the season goes, if I'm making several solo cruises then I may just go back down in size. I'm not sure what type of steering I have(what it's called), but it's basically a gear behind the helm that drives a rotating tube down to another gear box at the bilge. From that box another tube(this one is push pull I think) runs aft to the transom, then through another gear ass'y and to the rudders. I haven't laid eyes on the entire system so I'm not 100%. But I do know that the gear box behind the helm has a plug on top of it that looks like might take oil. There is at least one grease zerk in the back by the transom too. I wish it was hydraulic steering.

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by Shrew

There seem to be a lot of assumptions around the statement above. The OP never stated he was in a No Wake Zone when this occurred. He also never stated the distance from the scullers at the time of the pass either.

If he is not in a no wake zone and sufficient distance from another vessel (as dictated by the operating regulations of that state), then many are making a big deal out of nothing.

Example: State of Ct (US): No wake when less than 100 ft of a Dock, Pier, Float, anchored/moored vessel, shore, swimming area buoys.

There are, in fact, no published regulations about vessels underway, including self-powered vessels in the state of Ct. (I am using CT as an example because that is the regulation book I happened to have on hand right now). I'm not sure where the OP is located.

Yes, it is courteous to reduce wake for other vessels, especially when around very small, self power vessels. However, let's not go overboard vilifying the guy when we're not completely clear on details.

Lllllp

Originally Posted by ashedd

As the title says, I'm new to larger boats. I was perfectly happy with my little 20' cabin cruiser powered by an evinrude, but it basically was only useful for one person to use, as a 20' cabin cruise only has about 10' of deck space. Trying to wedge four chairs in that 10' for entertaining was a nightmare, especially if you're over six and a half feet tall like me. So I figured a 28' cabin cruiser would work better. More beam, more systems, larger aft deck. Plus a 28' isn't very likely to have a loud smelly outboard that everyone but me hates. Buying a new e-tec for the 20 footer was an option but not real cheap.

Flash forward to now... I looked at several 28' foot boats that I liked. Then the guy I rent moorage from tells me he's moving out of state and wants to sell me his boat. I resist but decide to take it at the last min before he moves. It was going to sit in the boathouse of the property he sold until someone bought the boat. So instead of a 28' boat I got a 40' wood express cruiser. Kept in a boat house it's whole life and with regular hull maintenance. I looked at plenty of rotten wood boats in the past, almost lost my screwdriver in the transom of one, but this one is solid. It's a planked boat so it seems much stronger than the plywood cabin cruiser I had/have.

I must assume it's a full displacement hull. It's a 1957 Richardson Express Cruiser 40' with 12' beam. It's powered by a pair of gas V8's straight inboards. It idles in gear at 5 knots, nothing slower. I'd say 6 knots is the high limit of no wake, although this thing always kicks up some sort of wake. At 8 knots it has quite a wake and I enjoy watch how the university crew team handles it when they pass me. Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them.

So far I seem to like cruising at 9-10 knots turning about 1500-1600 rpm and with a stern wave large enough to wake surf behind. At those speeds I can stand on the aft deck(which is huge) and I feel like I'm on a battleship. At 2500-2600 rpm I can get up into the teens, 15-16 knots, right on the edge of planning(or at least that's how it feels). 18 knots feel like a full plane. WOT(with minor tuning still required) gets me 23-24 knots and a wake I thought I'd never see behind a boat I'd ever operate. I think I may have seen info online(it's hard to find Richardson info) with a stated max speed in the upper 20's(like 29 knots). From what I can tell most these large wood cruisers are all alike, they have similar if not the same hull. My boat looks almost just like a Chris Craft Constellation.

So am I correct in assuming this is a full planning hull? I have trim tabs that keep blowing a fuse so they're not hooked up currently, not sure if they're up or down or i what. The tabs are on the list of repairs. I don't particularly like the way it steers on plane, it seems to wallow about. It'll roll over more than I'm comfortable with but that might just be the size I'm not used too. I had an Olympic cuddy that you could put in a turn at 50 knots and the gunwales would be on top of the water. If I ever saw that with the Richardson I think I would soil myself. Of course it's crappy to steer at low speed too, but I know that's relatively normal for a large deep V hull.

I was hoping the hull could work out ok at displacement speeds. I actually prefer to go slower, it allows me to walk around and do stuff while underway, and the fuel burn is lower. I don't know the fuel burn now but I'd expect it to be pretty bad.

Here is a pic of a pic. I need to take some nice pics this spring

Originally Posted by ranger42c

You need to rethink your outlook on operations around other boat traffic.

It's likely an older version (earlier design) of a planing hull, although could be semi-planing. Maybe some 'net searches for brand/model info could turn something up, maybe an owner's club, etc.

Sounds like your steering is loose. Won't always be great at slow speed, but it shouldn't be squirrelly. Should be much better at design speeds, and if it's not my first suspicion would be about cables, connections, etc.

You can use it at displacement speeds. Sometimes sea states won't be wonderful for that; change course (or even destination), tack, speed up, whatever during those times.

You need to rethink your outlook on operations around other boat traffic.

-Chris

Originally Posted by jamesdavis

As many others who've responded to this post have indicated--and to me--there appears to be no ambiguity in the OP's posted words. Again: "Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them."

Originally Posted by jamesdavis

As many others who've responded to this post have indicated--and to me--there appears to be no ambiguity in the OP's posted words. Again: "Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them."

[Pendragon35]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Hmmm...I admit to the same feelings as many have posted here at first, but then re-read the post and noticed the section bolded below.


"I must assume it's a full displacement hull. It's a 1957 Richardson Express Cruiser 40' with 12' beam. It's powered by a pair of gas V8's straight inboards. It idles in gear at 5 knots, nothing slower. I'd say 6 knots is the high limit of no wake, although this thing always kicks up some sort of wake. At 8 knots it has quite a wake and I enjoy watch how the university crew team handles it when they pass me. Those guys are always in my way so it doesn't bug me too much to inconvenience them."



So I revise my assumption and think that maybe he's not such an ass; should he slow down even more so the rowers can have a wake-free row? Or maybe if he sees the scullers out he should just stay in? From the paragraph above it seems he's a little conflicted at the wake the boat throws anyway, and has rationalized it in an (from first hand experience; I do the same) all-too-familiar manner...

Almost appears to be a little excess, overt PC creeping in here...

But the post also brings up a question I've always had: Is the owner/operator of a boat responsible for injuries or damages caused by excessive wakes thrown by his boat? In other words, if a small boat is anchored on a point, say, I dunno, fishing, and an obnoxious powerboater roars by and causes a fisherman in the small boat to fall and break his arm, is the powerboater liable?

Yes, in most states, the operator is responsible for his wake. This is particularly true where there is a stated speed limit or a no wake zone.

[30West]

I don't envy you having to operate in a busy commercial and pleasure boat harbor. The bigger the boat, the more you have to think about what you need to do next, and you have to focus on what everyone around you is doing to figure that out. In the situation you describe, with that boat, you will have to have a fairly intense focus on everything around you, instead of a relaxing experience. It can still be enjoyable if you like that kind of thing, but if not, you might need to rethink this purchase.

Your wake at 4.5 knots will be negligible, but you will have very limited maneuverability. Before it gets busy, definitely practice circling some pilings or buoys to get a feel for that boat, and how it deals with winds and currents. A twin inboard can be walked sideways, if you know how and do some practicing. Those engines won't give you quick torque like diesels or modern gassers, you will sometimes need to throw the throttles up pretty far and snatch them back when the engines respond, to make subtle maneuvers. That will require practice.

Always think about how you will deal with losing one engine, in any situation. Those old engines can be temperamental. Single-screw inboard is a whole different art, that again requires a bit of specific knowledge, and a lot of practice. Better to get that practice early in the season before it gets crowded.

People will have higher expectations of you in a bigger boat, especially a classic like that. You are in a different class now, and need to act like it.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by SV Bacchus

I know you can take anything to court and try get damages, proving the powerboat wrong may be the difficult part.

Unless it was an official NO Wake Zone it might be a hard sell in court?