Trailering larger boats as permit loads

[Jammer]

I've read the "pocket cruisers/trailer sailors" thread with interest.

Maybe my situation is different. I have a good deal of trailering experience but don't know much about cruising, so please help me out.

I'm in the Minneapolis area. There are five bodies of water here locally that are all worth cruising on but which aren't connected, practically speaking (and yes, I know you can sail from Lake Superior to the St. Croix, and a fine journey it is, but it takes a year):

1. The upper Mississippi river system, including the St. Croix river and Lake Pepin. My home port will be here.
2. Lake Superior
3. Lake Minnetonka
4. Lake of the Woods
5. Lake Vermillion

All of these except Vermillion have marinas with launch and haulout facilities (and mast cranes) suitable craft to 40' and beyond. Vermillion is remote and less developed, and would require a float off/float on trailer for access and self-sufficiency for stepping the mast.

I'm contemplating a once-a-year trip to the lakes outside my home port. Minnetonka is a 50 mile trip over land, Lake of the Woods perhaps 300, the others in between. Such a trip would be on a carefully chosen route, with supporting crew, timed to miss severe weather and traffic.

In Minnesota, an annual oversize permit is available for boat owners for $100, that will allow you to haul your boat with your trailer and your tow vehicle on the roads of the state, as long as the beam doesn't exceed 14'. Combined weight of trailer and boat are limited to 20,000 pounds under a standard Minnesota driver's license. There are progressively greater practical and compliance difficulties as the beam increases from 8'6" to 14', of course.

I'm wondering what the practical upper bound of trailerability is. I'm thinking that something like the Pacific Seacraft Orion would certainly be workable -- 27' length, 9'3" beam, 10,000 pound displacement. The bluewater cruisers in the low 30s lengths would perhaps be the outer limit due to both beam and displacement.

I've towed my 8,000 pound RV all over the midwest, and have trailer launched many smaller boats up to a 24' cabin cruiser, and don't find the idea of launching a 27' keelboat to be unreasonable.

Thoughts? Experience? Advice?

[ctl411]

I had a 25 that I kept a home over winter. Would keep in a slip for the season. Could launch and step mast with a couple friends. Wouldn't want to do it every weekend. Launch depth is a major concern. Check the ramps you would be using before you bother hauling a boat any long distance. We had to back the truck a ways in so 4 wheel drive was a must have also.

[a64pilot]

I have towed a few times a JD 410 backhoe on a triple axle trailer with my C3500 Duramax without issue, not in mountainous terrain. Backhoe and trailer likely every bit of 20,000 lbs
Weight wise a good 1 ton Dually can handle it.
It's depth at the launch ramp that would be my concern, if you could have it launched via crane would make that a non issue, and I'd think to step and unstep a large mast would require a crane?
Then if your only doing it once a year each way, why have your own truck and trailer works into it too?

Of course I'd love to sell you my truck, I have no need of it anymore and will sell it soon as we leave in May or early June

[Jammer]

== Launch depth ==

I'll check on that. My truck has 4wd and I expect to back it into the water up to the rear hubs. Triad Trailers sells custom trailers with a couple of different options for sliding tongues to get the trailer in the water. They can either make an 8' extension that is self-supporting or a longer one that requires a dolly under the tongue while launching.

An alternative would be to use a crane or travel lift, at least at the locations where one is available, but that adds cost and scheduling difficulties.

== Once a year ==

For planning purposes it would be two hauls a year -- round trip from home port to another body of water. I suppose I could pay a hauler but I believe there would be a couple of problems with that:

1) A hauler will require a crane at each end, won't they? A float-off launch requires a custom trailer. So there would be the cost and scheduling difficulties that come with two launches, two haulouts, and the trucking. Also, there is no crane or travel lift at Vermillion.

2) The marina in Lake of the Woods is in Canada, so the hauler would have to clear customs. If I'm hauling myself and can launch from the trailer I would have the option of launching at a U.S. ramp and clearing customs with just the boat.

I'm guessing that not all boat haulers will cross from the U.S. to Canada.

3) Cost. I have the truck anyway, so it becomes a question of at what point the trailer cost will exceed the payments for a commercial hauler.

== mast ==

I would step and unstep it myself using an A frame.

[Stumble]

The real enemy here isn't weight it's keel depth. A J-35 is around 12,500lbs, heck my Beneteau 381 is ~17,000, and both are under 14' wide. The problem is that finding a ramp with enough depth just isn't going to happen. No amount of tounge extenders is going to get them in the water, they just draw too much water.

So if you want to go big, my advice is to look for either boats with lifting keels (rare but available on larger boats) or a multihull that doesn't draw much.

A 14' width restriction would put you in ~30' Catamaran, an even bigger trimaran (the Corsair 36 comes to mind), or a lifting keel monohull like the OD35, I think the J-105, and I am sure some others.

[gjordan]

There are many older designs that are centerboard boats and not too wide to practically tow. I bought a Tartan 34C that only draws 4 foot and is 10' 2" beam. I bought a 3 axle trailer and modified it to fit the Tartan. If I had a newer 1 ton, I probably would have towed it home, but ended up paying a mobile home mover to pull it. I did move it around with my older 3/4 ton and that was easy except that the visibility was awful. I cant imagine towing with a 14 foot beam. Rearward looking cameras would be a good investment to tow anything over 10 foot beam safely. There are enough boats that are large enough for comfort, but dont have excessive draft or beam to make towing practical. My trailer has electric brakes, so I would not even consider self launching. It is all doable, but you need to be careful. Good Luck. _____Grant.

[gjordan]

Reading your post again, I am really amazed that your state lets non commercial drivers pull a 14 foot wide load. I had an aircraft hanger moved about 10 years ago and at 12 feet (the largest piece) we had to have a lead and trail car with lights and radios, and if it was over 12 foot, we would have had to have a Highway Patrol escort. It is a little scary to think that for $100, a person (no reference to you) that might have never driven anything larger than a Prius could be allowed to pull a 14 foot wide load. It sounds like a recipe for disaster. Just my thoughts. ____Grant.

[Colin A]

Launching will be the tricky part. I do know a few people who tow over width power boats home for the winter pretty simple. Back when I worked at the marina we towed 9.5' width boats fairly frequently over the road without a permit (not legal but it's hard to tell with a boat). I did pull a permit once for a 12' width houseboat to help someone out. drove to the state office handed them the money they handed me the permit no questions asked about CDL. Here that width at the time required signs on the front and back but did not require an escort.
A lot will depend on your comfort with the width what roads you have to drive on and the setup for hauling and launching. My parents had a succession of trailer sailors when I was a kid but the larger ones (24') they used to have the travelift launch and step the mast and left on a mooring most of the year.

[a64pilot]

Most ramps in the panhandle of Fl that I am familiar with, about the time you would get the boat deep enough to launch it, the trailer will fall off the edge of the ramp, and often that edge is steep enough that you cannot get the trailer back up, and if you get determined enough, you will pull the axle out from under the trailer.
I have done that

[Cadence]

Make sure you have good operational brakes on the trailer so the tail doesn't wag the dog.

[Adelie]

You are going to be staying on lakes. For me I would not be looking for a serious cruising boat. The only exception is Lk Superior, and even there most coastal boats do just fine.

I would suspect that ramp length is going to be the biggest problem ramp launching a fixed keel or rather water depth at the end of the ramp vs what you need to float the boat off.

The boat that most immediately comes to mind for me is the C&C Mega 30. 30' LoA, 8' Beam, 4400lb + trailer. Lifting keel, not a centerboard. Boat can sail with keel partially raised.

MEGA 30 OD (C&C)

Alternatively centerboard boats.

[Cheechako]

I've trailered some. For trailering I would buy a shallow draft, centerboard/swing keel boat. I've trailered deeper draft 26 ft boat, it seems a bit dicey at times with the boat sitting high on a trailer like that, not to mention getting up and down also.
A few years ago I looked at Mega 30's precisely for this purpose. Fast and light. Most of them are pretty rough by now. They are very light built but could be fun if you found a good one.
I could have got one for <$3000 with two sets of sails and one set that was near new racing sails. Including outboard. It had sat a long time in fresh water and had bad blisters though. I thought about giving them $1000 for it, but with the thin light cored hull decided against it. I talked with a guy who was rebuilding one entirely, he thought he was going to get $12k out of it and I told him he was dreaming. A few years later it was on the market completely recored hull and painted etc. I don't know if it ever sold, but I think it was down to $6500. They are just racing shells though really.
There are some real cruising type boats with shallow draft out there. Tartan 33? Many of the shallow sailboats of any size are going to require a launch facility rather than a ramp.
The Seaward/Hake 32 would be superb, but expensive.

[roland stockham]

Not sure if there is a north American equivalent but the French have always made some excellent alloy shallow draft yachts in the 28-35ft range. I would suggest having a look and then finding if anything similar is available to you. Shallow draft will make towing much easier as well as launching because the load will be much more stable.

[lifeofreilly57]

There's a really nice ramp across from my home port mooring, from time to time when we're on it there's lots of free entertainment, especially on weekends.
One thing I've noticed is that after a few boats come in and out the vehicles with two wheel drive can have issues pulling up the ramp, and this ramp is not steep.
If your going to be pulling a fair sized boat/trailer combo I suggest 4 wheel drive, it could save you lots of grief.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

There's a really nice ramp across from my home port mooring, from time to time when we're on it there's lots of free entertainment, especially on weekends.
One thing I've noticed is that after a few boats come in and out the vehicles with two wheel drive can have issues pulling up the ramp, and this ramp is not steep.
If your going to be pulling a fair sized boat/trailer combo I suggest 4 wheel drive, it could save you lots of grief.

Absolutely!