More problems in Mexico

[Terra Nova]

SV--good post.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Now wait a second here...everyone is certainly entitled to have their opinion...but.... Are we really citing examples from the 1980's as to why you feel uneasy about traveling to Mexico? If that's not absurd on it's face I don't know what else to say honestly. For the love of Pete...30yrs after WWII you could safely visit Germany and Japan, how about a little perspective on things!

A little perspective on things? Are you serious? The 1980s (and '90s) in Mexico were basically mild compared to the climate today. Even so, I felt nervous ever time I went there. Anyone who drives over the border from San Diego to Tijuana quickly understands the poverty, desperation, and desire of the locals to "climb the fence". Why do we have the Border Patrol? Just something to do?

For a vendor, you do seem confused. Sure, "you've" not had any problems "yet". Good luck, my friend. The State Dept. issues warnings for a reason. You wish to disregard them? Have at it.

Since the 1980s, sweet Mexico has gone from bad to very dangerous. To not understand that fact shows lack of being abreast of the news.

Have fun sailing!

Ps; Whatever you vend, I won't be buying any.

[SniperSailor]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

Y'all might think I am nuts, but more people have been killed in the drug war in Mexico alone, than US soldiers killed in Vietnam. We clearly aren't winning the drug war.

The only solution to the problem of the drug-related violence created by the drug cartels in North, Central and South America, as I see it, is to legalize recreational drugs. Make heroin and cocaine available by doctor's prescription, so the doctor could monitor the user's health. Cannabis is becoming legal and the drug cartels aren't so interested in cannabis anyway.

It's not just a problem in the Americas, what finances the Taliban? Opium to make heroin. Legalizing these drugs will make all the "industries" that rake in the dough from this drug business collapse.

Throwing more troops into the fray will only result in more deaths.

The war on drugs is over 80 years old and the personal use of recreational drugs are is going to be eliminated. Controlled...maybe.

Not that the poor Canadian's death was drug-related, but the culture of violence is drug-related.

Do what ever you want, just don't do it on my foot.

George, while I agree that all substances should be available for responsible adults, the problem in Mexico goes much deeper. The Cartels have diversified into other ways of generating income. A couple of years ago they found them tapping into major Pemex oil pipelines and trucking the oil to Houston for sale. A couple of prominent Houston businessmen went to prison for that. Much of the income on the local level is dominated by graft and muscle..."Pay us or your business explodes some night." They have degenrated into less than animals. If you have the stomach look on YoxuTube for "Beheadings by the Mexican Cartels." There is one in which the take 4 women, one of them guilty of nothing but being the sister of a memeber of a rival gang, and not only behead them but chop them into little pieces and dissolve them in acid.

[SkiprJohn]

Your shakedown read like you handled it really well. I think pretending to be a less than smart gringo that doesn't know pesos from dollars is the best policy. One wallet for pesos and one for dollars.

I remember bicycling in the 70s near Candlestick Park and stopped by two black youth with baseball bats asking if I liked baseball. I told them that I'm really not a fan of baseball and just out doing the 39 or 49 mile scenic tour. They had a dumbfounded look on their faces and decided not to swing on me and I rode off. That's probably the closest I've come to disaster even having wandered the streets of Saigon when it was still Saigon and having a few close calls.

That was not Mexico where I was treated with utmost respect on our latest cruise.

Wherever you go there are problems with some people. I avoid the problem areas if I can.

[chebba]

I enjoy this discussion every time it comes up. Usually once a year. One side talks about all the trouble and danger and death in Mexico and the other side talks that if you are kind and you don't show your money and stay quiet everything will be alright. Well, for one that has survived a robbery and vicious stabbing while I slept I have a challenge for the later group. I read on mexiconewsdaily.com a couple of day ago a story where a group of cartel guys ambushed a squad of Mexican Federal police and after the ensuing gun fight 7 federales were dead. show me a story like that in the States.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

Ps; Whatever you vend, I won't be buying any.

Why am I not surprised, because that attitude fits with your other views quite frankly. See for me to speak up and give my opinion requires some courage since you are correct I sell things to the cruising community. My words and opinions have consequences, your's...well...not so much. You can rant and rage without any accountability to yourself or the greater cruising community.

Fortunately for me, I'm in a pretty comfortable position in life. Retired at 38yrs old, went cruising with the family and living aboard doing exactly what I want, selling cruising gear to my fellow cruisers, that's not work, that's just plain fun. This position gives me the freedom to say what I think and not worry about it. When someone like you decides they would not want to do business with me because I think Mexico is safe and you say it isn't, it's unfortunate but honestly not something I will lose sleep over.

At the end of the day do I say and post things that will intentionally turn people off from buying something from me? Of course not, that would be stupid. However, what I don't do is flower up my thoughts, views or opinions as a way to make sales. That's not something I've ever done, nor will I ever do. It's also part of what makes my little marine business frankly so damn successful. People know I'm a straight shooter, no BS and if I tell you something it's what I really believe even if politically it would be smarter for me to not say it. Some people respect that and I don't have any control over those that don't...so they can add me to a black list if that is what makes you comfortable and how you chose to live your life. But this experience also helps explain your views of Mexico, so if nothing else I have thrown myself on the fire to expose the type of mindset and thinking that writes off a Country and People due to a few bad guys (which exists in every Country in the World).

My hope for everyone, not just cruisers, is that they can reach a point in their lives where they can feel free to express themselves with the same confidence and without fear or reprisals. And to hold and state their opinions with enough conviction and clarity that even if they knew they would take a financial hit in saying it...to do it anyway. That's what I call being successful my friend. Money...ah, that's just to buy mostly things you don't really need anyway. If more people thought along these lines it would make us a better Country and a better people.

Enjoy your cruising destinations and my advice to you would be to enjoy life, don't fear it.

Cheers

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

Ps; Whatever you vend, I won't be buying any.

Easy there PortClydeMe. You may find yourself unwashed and thirsty, with only warm beer to drink.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Why am I not surprised, because that attitude fits with your other views quite frankly. See for me to speak up and give my opinion requires some courage since you are correct I sell things to the cruising community. My words and opinions have consequences, your's...well...not so much. You can rant and rage without any accountability to yourself or the greater cruising community.

Fortunately for me, I'm in a pretty comfortable position in life. Retired at 38yrs old, went cruising with the family and living aboard doing exactly what I want, selling cruising gear to my fellow cruisers, that's not work, that's just plain fun. This position gives me the freedom to say what I think and not worry about it. When someone like you decides they would not want to do business with me because I think Mexico is safe and you say it isn't, it's unfortunate but honestly not something I will lose sleep over.

At the end of the day do I say and post things that will intentionally turn people off from buying something from me? Of course not, that would be stupid. However, what I don't do is flower up my thoughts, views or opinions as a way to make sales. That's not something I've ever done, nor will I ever do. It's also part of what makes my little marine business frankly so damn successful. People know I'm a straight shooter, no BS and if I tell you something it's what I really believe even if politically it would be smarter for me to not say it. Some people respect that and I don't have any control over those that don't...so they can add me to a black list if that is what makes you comfortable and how you chose to live your life. But this experience also helps explain your views of Mexico, so if nothing else I have thrown myself on the fire to expose the type of mindset and thinking that writes off a Country and People due to a few bad guys (which exists in every Country in the World).

My hope for everyone, not just cruisers, is that they can reach a point in their lives where they can feel free to express themselves with the same confidence and without fear or reprisals. And to hold and state their opinions with enough conviction and clarity that even if they knew they would take a financial hit in saying it...to do it anyway. That's what I call being successful my friend. Money...ah, that's just to buy mostly things you don't really need anyway. If more people thought along these lines it would make us a better Country and a better people.

Enjoy your cruising destinations and my advice to you would be to enjoy life, don't fear it.

Cheers

This is the kind of post that makes one start thinking clear(er) about some folks thoughts and comments on certain subjects such as cruising to a foreign port when others are dead set against it..If I had a business that catered to folks that go sailing the last thing I would want is someone starting a bunch of rigamarow about how unsafe and dangerous a place is!! A man or women cant make any money in that environment!! Considering that someone would take such a stance to make money at all cost would be repugnet and very wrong and I would hope that no one would ever do that..I am defintly not saying that SV 3rd day is doing that,this and another thread just made me think about it..

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

This is the kind of post that makes one start thinking clear(er) about some folks thoughts and comments on certain subjects such as cruising to a foreign port when others are dead set against it..If I had a business that catered to folks that go sailing the last thing I would want is someone starting a bunch of rigamarow about how unsafe and dangerous a place is!! A man or women cant make any money in that environment!! Considering that someone would take such a stance to make money at all cost would be repugnet and very wrong and I would hope that no one would ever do that..I am defintly not saying that SV 3rd day is doing that,this and another thread just made me think about it..

That's a valid point.
I could be a shrill for the Mexican tourism board as a way to sell more cruising gear I guess, heck Obama could be a Kenyan, anything is possible, but those that know me on this and other sites for years would realize that's not the case. But seeing that I cruised full time in Mexico for 4yrs, take month long trips to La Paz in the summer by car down 1000 miles of Baja, have a dealer that I talk to almost daily for orders in Mexico, travel monthly to Mexico and ....gasp...bring my 17yr old daughter with me to have her braces adjusted, I'm not just talking Mexico as safe...I'm living it. (wow was that a run on sentence or what)

What is always interesting about these "is Mexico safe threads" which as one poster pointed out happen about once a year is that most of the negatives come from people who have never been there while the people who have post how much they love it and feel safe there. So who has more credibility on the issue? People that are there now and have been there recently or those that only read about those evil brown people trying to crash the Border in Mexico and are reading State Department Travel alerts?

The great thing about the Cruisers Forum and sites like this is that all sides get to present their view and then the readers get to decide. But since the Baja Ha-ha rally is overflowing with boats traveling down each year...well....I think many are not buying into the fear.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The great thing about the Cruisers Forum and sites like this is that all sides get to present their view and then the readers get to decide. .

Agree Yes, and further,
Take a good look at where the information is comming from..
Over the years we've read the posts from Martin, from Zee, Rich, and countless others, Read their personal blogs and have trailed them.
We not only know who they are, we know their families, and much of their personal lives..
So What I'm saying is that you have to look at where the information is comming from,
From Zee, whos been in Mexico for a few years now, knows the people and has carved out a life there,
From Rich, who runs a business here in the states and Mexico and is a total supporter of Crusers heading south,
And Martin, whos boat, which we all took part in his rebuild Vicariously, some of us a little more. and it now sets south of the border..
OR, do we listen to someone who has only been on the forum for a couple months and has put forth nothing more than the ability to mouth off negitive about almost anything,,
So a warning to those that read about the problems in Mexico or for that matter, anywhere on the CF forum.. do a search on whoever is posting and decide for yourself, if the information has any merit...

Randy&Ramona... Headed South

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by mikereed100

Easy there PortClydeMe. You may find yourself unwashed and thirsty, with only warm beer to drink.

Glad you posted that warning. Gracias! I usually keep the word count in my posts to around 100 or less, yet here I’ll make an exception. Why? Because this thread and those about sailing armed are of interest to me. Why? Because I may someday sail inside the 12-mile limit of third-world dangerous countries, and because my boat will be armed for the safety of those on board.


As for going without fresh water and cold beer, please let me explain the problem with that premise. First, I will never forget spinning around on the stool of my father’s pharmacy when I was 5 and hearing him state “The customer is always right.” Now, what does that actually mean? What it means is that the customer is always right “as long as I win”. Now, what does that mean? Well, I didn’t know then, but now as the owner of a very successful company that I can run from anywhere in the world, including a nice yacht, I’ve got a very good understanding.



Here’s the concept, for those working for “the man” who do not quite understand: Unless you are an NPO, you are working for profit. Thus, when pharmaceuticals cost me “X” (let’s say, $1) and I sell them for “Y” (let’s say, $2), then every time the customer purchases my pharmaceuticals “I win” ($$$). It matters not if they sometimes complain or if I dislike their choice of aftershave, because at the end of the day “They are right!”, and “I win” ($$$). Thus, good ‘ol dad was “Right on the money!”, as they say.
Here’s another example: A client sent me an order yesterday (a $1K job that takes me about two hours to complete). In his e-mail he asked “By the way, should the client (his end client, not mine) need these files further revised, you’ll do that for free, correct?” I kindly replied “No, I cannot do that for free, yet I will try to help you with the cost.” Why did I say that? Isn’t the customer always right? Well, yes. The customer IS always right UNTIL I no longer “win”. As I had to explain to my client, the time needed to do revisions is often more than that needed to do the original job. Thus, the “winning profit” that I originally made from my client would be lost. I don’t like losing.


Now, to present times sailing the world of joy and Mexican sea-spray. When it comes to on-board water makers and refrigeration, I am now opening the wallet and the vender will be “winning”. That’s OK, as I need the water and the cold beer. However, it’s a big bad business world out there, so if I get any sass regarding my wants and needs, the wallet will close and the dollars will sail down the coast to the next vendor. That concept holds true for all vendors, because don’t forget, “The customer is always right.” If I’m set on a new Hinckley and I get any sass, or if I think that they are “idiots in any way”, my dollars will sail away, regardless of the fact that only Hinckley makes a Hinckley. Understand? For a $500K plus purchase, the customer better “Be always right”, or the next sound you will hear is “Ring Ring… Hello, Little Harbor, are you free next Monday?”


Childhood braces, water makers, fridges, and post-retirement economic escapades aside, I generally stay far clear of locales where the US State Dept. warns that it is generally very unsafe to travel. It might be different if my name was Gonzales and my folks live in Cuidad Juarez or Acapulco, but it isn’t, and they don’t. Comprende? For those wishing to sail to “warned about” third-world countries, please enjoy! In fact, the Southern Philippines, Somalia, Oman, El Salvador, Honduras, and Venezuela probably have some open moorings too. Please throw all care to the wind!



“Buying into the fear.” Hmm, that’s an interesting and somewhat unconscious take on the topic. Via con Dios!

[TacomaSailor]

I guess my wealthy and elderly friends in a beautiful and obviously expensive boat have just been darn lucky during the last 18-months of cruising and living in Western Mexico. They must be naive and stupid because they innocently sail from remote anchorage to remote anchorage with little or no concern.

OH - WHAT?

This is their THIRD cruise in the last 16-years to Mexico and they keep coming back? They own beautiful waterfront homes on an island in Washington State and Hawaii, and another in a upscale SoCal beach community but they prefer life aboard in Mexico. How can that be?

What fools - 16-years of risk taking!

They have their children and grandchildren visit them in Mexico and cruise with them? They should be punished for child endangerment at a minimum!

What? - their son who is an engineer graduate from USC who grew up on the boat in Mexico and Central America and prefers to spend as much time there as possible.

How can he be so ignorant? Just because he has been to western Mexico on a boat at least a half dozen times doesn't mean he really understands how dangerous is the situation.

How can such intelligent folks take so many unnecessary risks? Don't they know it is safer and far less stressful to live in a cloistered community with like minded folks who will assure them that they are making the right decision staying close to home and all with which they are familiar?

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Agree Yes, and further,
Take a good look at where the information is comming from..
Over the years we've read the posts from Martin, from Zee, Rich, and countless others, Read their personal blogs and have trailed them.
We not only know who they are, we know their families, and much of their personal lives..
So What I'm saying is that you have to look at where the information is comming from,
From Zee, whos been in Mexico for a few years now, knows the people and has carved out a life there,
From Rich, who runs a business here in the states and Mexico and is a total supporter of Crusers heading south,
And Martin, whos boat, which we all took part in his rebuild Vicariously, some of us a little more. and it now sets south of the border..
OR, do we listen to someone who has only been on the forum for a couple months and has put forth nothing more than the ability to mouth off negitive about almost anything,,
So a warning to those that read about the problems in Mexico or for that matter, anywhere on the CF forum.. do a search on whoever is posting and decide for yourself, if the information has any merit...

Randy&Ramona... Headed South

I'd respond, yet you already know me so well and can anticipate my retort.

Sail safe on that nice French boat!

[ryon]

To be totally fair, PortClydeMe did live in LA for ten years up through around '95, and visited Baja by car, handing out 20 dollar bills to bribe the Federales on his way down to Ensenada.

That's gotta be worth some cred.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by ryon

To be totally fair, PortClydeMe did live in LA for ten years up through around '95, and visited Baja by car, handing out 20 dollar bills to bribe the Federales on his way down to Ensenada.

That's gotta be worth some cred.

Yes, to a very small degree.

Listen, my point is otherwise. Read the warnings, or don't. It's your boat, your wife(?), and your life.

The thread is about the current state of safety in Mexico.

Notice how the title is "More problems in Mexico"?
It doesn't read "My gosh, safe sweet Mexico now has problems".