Written from a child's perspective

[Departing2017]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

It seems obvious to me, as a family law lawyer, that parents that take their children long distance cruising are selfish . . .

I'd like to applaud the members who have made an effort to give Sailor Sailor's comments a fair hearing. The unusually high proportion of rational adults here is one of the best things about this forum.

We've raised our son on an eastern Pacific loop, California to Panama to FP to Hawaii, back to Mexico, and about to start again. I love my son with all my heart. I am so proud of the young man he is becoming. And I wouldn't trade our experiences or the gift of spending every moment of our cruising life with my little boy, watching him grow and discover the world around him, for anything.

We've homeschooled (world-schooled, we call it) our boy. We put him in an expensive, online private school the year we spent in Hawaii. And most recently he's been in a brick and mortar private school. He's above grade level academically, he makes friends easily, and in our, at this point statistically significant observation, he is not an exception among cruising kids.

Sailor Sailor, you've had many respectful replies to your, frankly, inappropriate comments. That you have some level of power over other families in the court system is more than a little concerning. As man and as a loving father, I'd advise you to take some time to reflect and see beyond your narrow assumptions. You and your children can only be better for it.

[wackerb]

Long post and don't know this has already been recommended but https://www.amazon.com/Child-Sea-Doi.../dp/1408178591 also available from other places. Inspiring story.

[bullislandken]

I agree. I thought the same thing when I thought of reading the Glass Castle. In spite of our parenting successes and failures, “we did the best we could”. I think her parents did not do the best they could.

[Don C L]

This article may be of interest here; about one kid's experience with sailing vs. school...
https://flatheadbeacon.com/2021/03/11/sailor-at-home/

It clearly is important to consider the relationship the children have with the parents, not just whether they are on a boat. It does not have to be cruising. Many years ago I met a little boy, 10 years old, in a chandlery, middle of a weekday. He was skillfully negotiating with the owner about a part needed for his dad's fishing boat. An older couple approached him and asked why he wasn't in school. "Oh I go to school at night. I learn all the stuff, you know math and history and stuff. But I help my dad with his boat!" he said proudly. "The other day we got the anchor stuck and my dad told me to dive down and get it. So I did!" When he was done in the shop he hopped in his dinghy, fired up the outboard and took off. Now I have been a teacher for 33 years, and I hope I did a good job, and I think I did ok because that little boy inspired me and showed me that formal schooling is not necessarily the best fit for everyone. And to do meaningful, important and FUN things with and for your parents can be the most rewarding and fulfilling thing for any child.

[bullislandken]

Hey, I live next to the lake where Robin Graham settled. I met him when I was still working as a timber framer. He is not the most sociable person but he does have an interesting past.

You may recall Robin selected sailing around the world when his parents gave him a couple choices. At times he wanted to quit, too.

I expect every child at sea with their parents are gaining valuable life skills as they travel.

[jazzgtr]

Think this story is more about bad parenting than anything else and that can happen anywhere. Parents so caught up in themselves that they ignore the needs of their children.

[Jim Cate]

Well, I finally was able to read the whole article and must agree that, if her tale is taken as absolute truth, those kids were abused and neglected... nasty situation for a long time.

HOWEVER, to say that this is typical amongst the cruising families is ridiculous. No one who has interacted with the children of long term cruisers or their parents would make such a silly conflation.

I'm also left with a faint sense that she has dramatized things to spice up the book. This could be a false interpretation, but is not unknown amongst autobiographers. At any rate, I'm glad that she eventually got clear and had a decent life as an adult (I think).

The severe criticism of the family cruising lifestyle that some have posited upthread is unjustified IMO, and there is a lot of evidence available to support my view. Some time spent in distant anchorages will bear that out... and you will meet some extraordinary young folks (and their elders, too).

Jim

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

All that proves is if you suddenly force home schooling on families not interested and willing, that the unprepared kids and parents will struggle.

Heck even among the willing, they had no time to prepare or adapt to home schooling. Hardly a quality test.

Among the cruisers we've met the kids are all doing great...but it's typically a situation where the parents pre-planned and we're prepared.

As others have suggested, this kid would likely have had similar issues growing in a suburban scenario with bad parents.

Agreement!

Sorry, didn't mean to make such a big highlight.

[davil]

It is interesting how some threads get more attention than others.
What makes this subject different from others?

It did touch a nerve, or so appears.

As cruisers, we have encountered many families with children and a common denominator on the kids was a higher degree of maturity, independence, along with an increased sense of curiosity for their environment, their heightened social skills enabling them to interact with local kids, and other cruising families.

These families were usually well functioning units with not different traits than one will find in a land based neighborhood.

Certainly far from being ideal or perfect, and that is important, not to romanticize a different lifestyle, but accept the main concept they show a tendency to be inclusive and willing to assimilate what different social, ethnic racial, religious groups offer.

Emphasis on self-sufficiency is also a main trait, and I think is good.

After all, that is one of the motivations we adopt this type of lifestyle.

Interested in anything related to sailing/cruising read the article, yet dismissed it as non-interesting, felt there were inconsistencies and perhaps not factual description of events, but in any case a personal account of a very unhappy childhood/adolescent, product of a dysfunctional family, did not think much of it.

Surprised, this author recount of her personal memories will generalize an indictment of families raising children in the cruising community.

Most comments reflect a different experience.

Life is good

[Bowdrie]

Another article about the "Life and Times", so to speak.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...bc28b01&ei=125

[Tillikum]

Would be interesting to compare her book with her father's. Says here he's a hero for getting them out of the situation he got them into: BBC - Sailing hero honoured 33 years on

Getting trepanned seven times on a remote island without anaesthetic does sound a bit off-putting for a child.

Life with a "benevolent dictator" clearly doesn't suit everyone.

[Tellie]

Life with a "benevolent dictator" clearly doesn't suit everyone.[/QUOTE]

Tis true. Except for the "benevolent dictator", in which case in our house was me. I rather enjoyed the non-democratic environment. The little serfs in my realm on the other hand, well they're not so little anymore, still like to regale my Hungarian queen and I with all kinds of horrible stories of all the trials and tribulations of living under such a regime at Sunday dinners.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Don C L

... Many years ago I met a little boy, 10 years old, in a chandlery, middle of a weekday. He was skillfully negotiating with the owner about a part needed for his dad's fishing boat. An older couple approached him and asked why he wasn't in school. "Oh I go to school at night. I learn all the stuff, you know math and history and stuff. But I help my dad with his boat!" he said proudly. "The other day we got the anchor stuck and my dad told me to dive down and get it. So I did!" When he was done in the shop he hopped in his dinghy, fired up the outboard and took off. Now I have been a teacher for 33 years, and I hope I did a good job, and I think I did ok because that little boy inspired me and showed me that formal schooling is not necessarily the best fit for everyone. And to do meaningful, important and FUN things with and for your parents can be the most rewarding and fulfilling thing for any child.

That child was learning to be an adult, a course that seems to lacking in our modern education system.

The following history tid bit is boating related.... I promise.

In the early-mid 1800's, a young man named A.T. Mahon was sent off to boarding school at the age of 12. A couple of years later, around the age of 14, he went to Columbia University. After a few more years and not wanting to do as his father suggested, A. T. Mahon managed to get into the US Naval Academy.

His father, D. H. Mahon, wanted his son to go to West Point. D. H. Mahon was a professor at West Point and a leading theorist of the day on land warfare. Any officer who went through West Point, and fought in the US Civil War, was taught by D. H. Mahon. A.T. Mahon had grown up at West Point and I suspect did not want to be under the shadow of his father.

At the time, an appointment to West Point was much more prestigious than the Naval Academy which was a smaller and younger institution. At the age of 16 or so, A. T Mahon, traveled by boat and stage coach to Washington, DC to visit the Secretary of War at the War Department which is now the Department of Defense.

A. T. Mahon met with the Secretary of War, a man named Jefferson Davis, to negotiate a way to get into the Naval Academy. A. T. Mahon had an appointment to West Point but wanted to go to the Naval Academy instead. Since a West Point appointment was more prestigious than the Naval Academy, a swap was arranged.

A. T. Mahon would serve in the US Civil War and Spanish American War but he really was not that good of a sailor. He is best known as the writer of The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_In...r_upon_History, which is still relevant today.

What I found interesting about the above, is that a teenager that was around 16 or so, traveled by stage coach and boat over many days, to talk to a high level government official, to negotiate a deal to change his appointment.

Letting a kid travel by themselves these days is considered by some as child abuse.... I would think A. T. Mahon built some confidence after that trip...

Later,
Dan

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by dannc

That child was learning to be an adult, a course that seems to lacking in our modern education system.
Later,
Dan

there’s really only so much we can do. The educational system is burdened with an impossible task in many cases.

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by Don C L

there’s really only so much we can do. The educational system is burdened with an impossible task in many cases.

Ok, but I would submit that many of their impossible task are off-mission and their limitations an poor outcomes largely self-inflicted. Public schools could do much more, certainly "enough", they just don't (institutionally) desire to do what is necessary to produce "successful" students. I have attended and taught in both public elementary and secondary "High" school as well in private/Christian schools. I have also taught at the University level but not relevant here. In small private schools we took students -a large portion of which were kicked out of the public schools on behavioral problems - and did amazing things with fewer teachers and about 1/5 the per-student operating budget of the public schools. Our students had a fantastic success rate and our class academic ACT/SAT average scores were in the top 10% of the nation. Basically we: 1) defined the priority education mission as preparing the kids from a (traditional) morality/ethics/personal accountability/critical thinking/academics/social skills standpoint to become adults who were successful and contributing members of society. 2) We embraced meritocracy and taught the students to sew wisely, because you reap what you sew 3) We controlled resource expenditures and limited to things that directly supported the mission and budgeted like it was our own personal money. That meant things like providing PE and sports as a side-dish- NOT THE MEAL and using textbooks for multiple years.... and even getting texts, lab equipment etc as cheap or free hand-me-downs from the universities. So the high school students were actually learning out of college, biology, chemistry, physics, math etc... texts and pretty much found undergraduate university classes and homework workloads easier than high school.

My public school teaching experience was significantly ..... um different. As a trend, modern, public schools absolutely do not prioritize even just academics in any real sense that would have the effect of squeezing out expensive and counter-productive distractions, including but certainly not limited to social activist programming, as being subservient to an academic/competency missional outcome. Basically, my takeaway is that public elementary/schools are institutionally run prioritizing the good of the institutional administration - and definitely teachers- over the good of the students. I was in many a NEA meeting where initiatives that would have been great for the students were derailed specifically because they involved performance/job measurement and accountability falling on faculty and therefore was deemed heretical ....aaannd naturally summarily shot down by the teachers union - all with zero discussion or consideration given to the interests of the students.

Sure, private elementary/secondary schools can be run very poorly, I suppose some as bad or worse thank public schools, but private schools are more accountable on performance and they don't tend to last long if they don't out perform the public schools give an apples:apples student population. Public schools increasingly "fail" because they are too busy "succeeding" on mission objectives that have nothing to do with (in some cases diametrically opposed to) creating young adults who are academically and ethically sound.

I believe that cruisers who are good parents and invested in their children can and do, for the most part, use similar techniques and get similar success vs public schools...its not rocket science, it is just much more straightforward to produce high-functioning adults when you get the mission aligned to that end.