Fending off family

[lestersails]

The necessary diplomatic tact is highly dependent on a lot of things folks have raised. Your wife, your wife's relationship with the BIL, the BIL's personal attributes, and your personality. I would be most interested to know what your wife thinks about it.

It is the same with swimming pools - I have heard more than once that lots of neighborhood 'friends' come out of the woodwork when you put in a pool. It can be really tricky to navigate.

[RSH]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

This is a little vague to shoot at because we don't have helpful information like

• your sailing experience
• your past habits or future plans regarding inviting others along
• examples of his past behavior
• your wife's and other relevant family members' attitudes
• past reactions to asserting yourself and/or family dynamics that have set in

So, I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look at it.

In my experience, there are three ways to deal with people who are tactlessly insensitive or oblivious to healthy boundaries.

1. You can let them commit continued boundary violations and just let it all bounce off of you, or absorb the hits as your preferences are violated, displaying good humor and dispensing grace (be a true saint, or a suffering-in-silence martyr, depending on your view).
2. You can be creative about frustrating their passive-agressiveness with creative responses, e.g., refilling your carton of lactose-free milk with whole milk if your lactose-intolerant roommate is stealing your food, or respond with "malicious compliance," knowing that giving the offender what he states he wants will make him suffer in some way (be petty, or a fake ignorance, and enjoy the serving up of just desserts, depending on your view).
3. You can set clear limits for them, gently but firmly, then consistently enforce those boundaries, and accept/deal with the consequences from them or others whose attitudes and actions you cannot control anyway (model good boundaries, express your preferences assertively but not aggressively, live in the integrity of your character).

Most of the responses you're getting are forms of (A), chosen victimhood (leaving out the super-human saints) or (B), some shade of sadism. Psychologists will tell you that (C) is by far the healthiest option and a better long-term life strategy because it trades on positive character traits such as honesty, accountability, and valuing yourself and others equally, and builds integrity and self-confidence in you, i.e., you start to like and grow in liking the kind of person you see in the mirror.

I think a (C)-category response is preferable, and Striker's post (#2) best exemplifies it. So throw your shoulders back, look him in the eye, and state your preferences in a diplomatic way, perhaps something like:

"I just don't see us spending several hours together and both of us enjoying it."
"But I really want to see what sailing is all about."
"I'd rather not."
"I'm sure we'll have a great time, you and I."
"I'd rather not."
"Why not? I won't be a problem."
"I'd rather not."
"I thought we always got along. Is this personal? Don't you like me? Because I like you."
"No, it's not that. I'd just rather not."
"Then what is it? Have I done something to offend you? I don't understand why you're being this way."
"I'd just rather not."
"You've always been selfish with your stuff, and treated me like trash!"
"I'm sorry you see it that way. I'd simply rather not."

If he's agressive, remain assertive and just keep repeating variations of "I'd rather not" over and over after you've given your reason/stated your preference. Don't make the mistake of defending or explaining your preference: that will just invite him to out-argue you as if it were a debate. Your preference is not a debate topic. He'll eventually have to accept it, or will run to others to call in reinforcements to pressure you. You'll have to stick to your guns without becoming defensive, argumentative, or personally attacking; rather, remain calm, kind, consistent and even-toned.

After everyone is done plying, threatening, and negotiating with you, they will finally throw their hands up in derision and consternation, label you as something-or-other (often "selfish" is used) to sooth their egos, and the overall family dynamic may change. Either they (all or some) will be more against you long-term and you have a long beat to weather ahead of you, or it was just your fathead of a brother-in-law whom you put in his proper place, and you will gain respect sooner rather than later.

I hope this is helpful for you. Only you know what you really want, both in the short- and long-terms, and what you're capable of doing and enduring, given your overall situation. Good luck and we'd love to hear what happens, no matter which path you choose.

Fair Winds.

Best.Advice.Ever.
For what it’s worth, I just watched an example of C. in action of all places “Love Island UK”. Olivia was determined to start a fight with Kai (for the simple reason that she brought a new guy in to hurt him and was stunned when he also retired with a new girl). Kai simply reiterated “you’re happy with your guy, I’m happy with my girl, there’s nothing to discuss, let’s move on.”

Olivia tried EVERY sneaky angle: gaslighting, baiting, shaming. Kai stayed cool and reasonable and simply reiterated his original statement. She eventually stomped away, infuriated.

It was a thing of beauty, and something I incorporated a week later when a castmate of mine invited the entire cast of 11 people to party on my catamaran. 😳

We don’t party; my husband and I rarely have anyone onboard, and if we do, we sail. I just deadeye looked back at him and said “that’s not going to work for me.” He did the whole “she’s a party pooper” in front of the other cast members, and I just shrugged, smiled, and wandered off. He asked several more times and received the same answer, and he got madder each time. Luckily, the play ended and I could remove all contact with him from my life, which was nice. Life is too short to please narcissists.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

C: You can set clear limits for them, gently but firmly, then consistently enforce those boundaries, and accept/deal with the consequences from them or others whose attitudes and actions you cannot control anyway (model good boundaries, express your preferences assertively but not aggressively, live in the integrity of your character).
....

"I just don't see us spending several hours together and both of us enjoying it."
"But I really want to see what sailing is all about."
"I'd rather not."
"I'm sure we'll have a great time, you and I."
"I'd rather not."
"Why not? I won't be a problem."
"I'd rather not."
"I thought we always got along. Is this personal? Don't you like me? Because I like you."
"No, it's not that. I'd just rather not."
"Then what is it? Have I done something to offend you? I don't understand why you're being this way."
"I'd just rather not."
"You've always been selfish with your stuff, and treated me like trash!"
"I'm sorry you see it that way. I'd simply rather not."

"broken record" - That's Assertiveness Training 101. It's definitely a healthy way to set and maintain your own boundaries in the least offensive manner possible.

But it is a method of last resort, when no mutual understanding can be reached. The OP has told us little of the relationship with the BIL or how it plays out elsewhere.

Most sailors I know are OK with taking someone out, once in a while. In fact many welcome the company and added help. So one can only wonder at the actual dynamics at play that make a flat refusal necessary... and difficult. None of our business, of course.

[St Pete Gipsii]

Take him out. You may find that he is a different person away from the rest of the family. You may even find that sharing an interest will allow you guys to get along. If he likes it you can guide him to become a safe boater. If it is a bad experience, then just be honest with him about what didn't work. He may learn that sailing is not for him. In the end you're the one scoring the points with the family with the upside of gaining a new friend. The downside is you've donated a few hours. Best of luck to you!

[Simi 60]

Gee some people make mountains out of molehills.
If you don't want to take people out - don't.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by brazenarticle

Be a grownup. If you want someone on the boat say "yes". If not, say "no".

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Has he sailed before?
If not then suffer a bit of personal pain and take him on a 48 hour bash to windward.
About 24 hours in say 'Call me when it moderates' and retire below.
I doubt he will return.

Not sure how Chile is relevant to the question?

But thanks for the reading - Maybe I will invite myself and my wife to sail with you next time we are in Chile, then it might be relevant 😂. How I would love to sail there.

[Tom and Maje]

Originally Posted by Capt Andy

What is your diplomatic go to when not wanting family on your boat? I have a BIL who is interested in sailing and has all but invited himself onto the boat but I don't like his company. What is a "polite" way to say "No thanks!"?

Tell him you aren’t set up for company. Period. And don’t get drawn into an argument about it.

Maje

[Tom and Maje]

Originally Posted by Capt Andy

What is your diplomatic go to when not wanting family on your boat? I have a BIL who is interested in sailing and has all but invited himself onto the boat but I don't like his company. What is a "polite" way to say "No thanks!"?

You don’t say what kind of boat you have or the reason you don’t like him. But that really doesn’t matter. It’s your boat and you don’t want him on it. Tell him you aren’t set up for company. Period. And don’t get drawn into an argument about it.

Maje

[JPA Cate]

^^^^^
Yes, it's not diplomatic, but it is true to oneself.

The thing is, when we had a 30 footer, we'd still take out 6 for a late morning to evening daysail, and we all had a good time. It would be a hard sell if the OP were to try to argue that his boat's too small. And, landlubbers are not in general inculcated into understanding the captain's word is all.

Jim had a rule that he who clogs the toilet has to un-clog it. Demonic, eh?


Ann

[RaymondR]

I got around a lot of these type problems was to consider that my likes and dislikes were my problem and not the subject of the like or dislike.