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Old 11-03-2024, 15:47   #61
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
This was a commercial fishing boat that takes people out for pleasure fishing--often 50 or more people will be crowding the side decks of these things, each with a pole and line in the water.
OK, so that's not a fishing vessel according to the rules - it's just a power driven vessel and is required to follow the rules. Call them and inform them they are required to stay out of your way according to rule 18. If they don't report them to the coast guard. If you have it recorded, they should be able to issue a ticket.
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Old 11-03-2024, 16:22   #62
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Re: Collision Avoidance

Why don't we all try to share the ocean?
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Old 11-03-2024, 17:25   #63
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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Why don't we all try to share the ocean?
Agreed as to sharing the ocean, just try not to share the same hole made in the ocean at the same time.
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Old 11-03-2024, 18:06   #64
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
OK, so that's not a fishing vessel according to the rules - it's just a power driven vessel and is required to follow the rules. Call them and inform them they are required to stay out of your way according to rule 18. If they don't report them to the coast guard. If you have it recorded, they should be able to issue a ticket.

Have you ever actually done this? Was the USCG pleased to take your report? Did they act upon it?
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Old 11-03-2024, 18:28   #65
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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they should be able to issue a ticket.
Does this happen?
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Old 12-03-2024, 04:20   #66
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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Does this happen?
In some jurisdictions it does. I don't know how responsive the USCG is, or if they are the appropriate agency in your particular region - might be state agency or local police, but someone is responsible for it. I wouldn't bother doing this with a recreational boater pulling the normal bonehead stuff, but for so-called professionals, I wouldn't put up with repeated violations. Can't say that I've ever had an issue with commercial vessels pulling that crap in American waters; it's usually the recreational boats. But I'm not American and only spent a little time in US waters.
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Old 12-03-2024, 04:59   #67
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Re: Collision Avoidance

The USCG has absolutely no interest or incentive to do anything about commercial vessels or recreational vessels violating the rules of the road unless someone is injured or your boat is severely damaged. In the Intracoastal Waterway we were once swamped by a large sportfisherman's wake--it sent green water across the entire deck of our 38-foot heavy motorsailor, with torrents of water cascading down below through open hatches. The floorboards below were awash for a bit. Our bow is 5 feet above the water, normally. I called the Coast Guard and they told me over the VHF that they could do nothing unless I was reporting an injury or damage to my boat. I have heard the Coast Guard telling others this same thing on the radio.
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Old 12-03-2024, 09:35   #68
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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The USCG has absolutely no interest or incentive to do anything about commercial vessels or recreational vessels violating the rules of the road unless someone is injured or your boat is severely damaged. In the Intracoastal Waterway we were once swamped by a large sportfisherman's wake--it sent green water across the entire deck of our 38-foot heavy motorsailor, with torrents of water cascading down below through open hatches. The floorboards below were awash for a bit. Our bow is 5 feet above the water, normally. I called the Coast Guard and they told me over the VHF that they could do nothing unless I was reporting an injury or damage to my boat. I have heard the Coast Guard telling others this same thing on the radio.
True here too though you may have a claim, or get more of a response, if you manage to make a video of the event. I wish I had grabbed my phone when I was almost run over by a speeding boat with no one at the helm. I was a little busy at the time.
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Old 12-03-2024, 11:39   #69
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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Even an AI will struggle with the conflicting strategies to avoid collision as outlined in the Colregs …….
I'm betting an AI would have an easier job of it once Rule 5 is clarified/revised. Given the number of recurring human factors that keep popping up in accident reports, an AI that can follow the basic rules (take early action, sound warning signals, etc) should come out ahead in most resulting court cases.

Sure, there are always the edge cases, but those will be problematic for humans as well; that's why they can go back-and-forth through multiple appeals.
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Old 12-03-2024, 11:45   #70
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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The USCG has absolutely no interest or incentive to do anything about commercial vessels or recreational vessels violating the rules of the road unless someone is injured or your boat is severely damaged.
...
I called the Coast Guard and they told me over the VHF that they could do nothing unless I was reporting an injury or damage to my boat. I have heard the Coast Guard telling others this same thing on the radio.
I wonder how much of this is insufficient resources vs not wanting to get involved in minor disputes with minimal supporting evidence: the "if it's not documented it didn't happen" problem.

Sounds like dashcams and VDRs may be increasingly necessary on the water as well. Get something egregious and you can at least get Internet Points for it.
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Old 12-03-2024, 12:21   #71
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Re: Collision Avoidance

Recently cutting through the pongo-alligator canal (very narrow for sailboat with 5’ draft), as we were coming to the last marker we were supposed to see a tug pulling a ¾ mile long dredging system turning into the canal.

Not only was there no way he could slow down as he had 3 barges and 1000’ of drege pipe floating behind him. Clearly, he had right of way but we had almost no place to go.
Tug pilot, who knew the waters well, asked for our draft and then gave us direction to walk into a hole so we could wait him out. If he had been 3 mins earlier, we would have to turn around and go back 10 miles.


That was a luck one.


Another time we were in a storm about 100miles off NC when a 900’ cargo ship popped up on ais on a collision course. Rule 17 gave him right of way but the storm was throwing up 18-25’ waves, so I asked nicely and he cranked up his speed by 10 kts to give us his stern.
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Old 12-03-2024, 12:53   #72
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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I wonder how much of this is insufficient resources vs not wanting to get involved in minor disputes with minimal supporting evidence: the "if it's not documented it didn't happen" problem.

They don't want to get involved because the statistics and accident reports over the years rarely if ever show any property damage, injury, loss of life, or environmental damage as a result of COLREGs/inland rules technical violations between commercial vessels and recreational vessels, in USA waters.



If you read the accident reports and cases, you can find out what they care about:
  • Vessel running aground because the pilot was distracted, sleep deprived, and/or not competent. (Linked upthread)
  • Barge leaking 10,000s of tons of ammonium sulfate into the river because it was overloaded and the master of the vessel tried to move it anyway
  • The matter of the m/v Conception
  • Ferry tries to force its way through hundreds of boats blocking the harbor exit during a poorly managed event that drew an enormous crowd including many boats and kayaks
  • Second mate and third mate are off watch and drunk and get in a fight, interfering with the operation of a tug (some things never change throughout history)
  • Amphibious sightseeing boat/bus sinking due to bad weather and inoperable bilge pumps with many passengers drowned.
They will also as we all know cite anyone for equipment violations, because they perceive this to have an impact on safety.
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Old 12-03-2024, 14:03   #73
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Re: Collision Avoidance

Even with video it would be very difficult to document a rules violation onboard, in many cases. My default position is stay out of the way of as many other vessels as possible, and if we have to come too close try to talk to them on the radio. Forget sound signals, etc. There is no way someone on the bridge of a commercial ship or a big powerboat will hear any sound a sailboat makes. OTOH, it is just silly to not keep a good watch and to give people room if you can. I was on another big ferry seated outside at the bow when I noticed a sailboat under sail would be crossing us at a right angle, and my sense was it would be a close thing. The sailboat kept coming at full speed and was obviously oblivious to the ferry behind his sails, but luckily the big ferry was able to duck under his stern at the last moment. We were in fairly constrained waters, but there was room for the ferry to maneuver. Pay attention!
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Old 12-03-2024, 14:37   #74
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Re: Collision Avoidance

Many of the boating accidents I read about are handled by state or local law enforcement. Seems like the USCG is concerned when commercial vessels are in accidents. I have seen the USCG respond to accidents but I suspect local or state law enforcement would be issuing citations or arrests.

The last accident we saw was when one or two jet skies somehow managed to crash into the inlet jetty. Responders where USCG, county deputies, at least one state agency and I think a neighboring state agency responded as well. If law enforcement action was required, my guess was that the state officers did so.
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Old 12-03-2024, 15:36   #75
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Re: Collision Avoidance

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(Snip)

Another time we were in a storm about 100miles off NC when a 900’ cargo ship popped up on ais on a collision course. Rule 17 gave him right of way but the storm was throwing up 18-25’ waves, so I asked nicely and he cranked up his speed by 10 kts to give us his stern.
I assume you were motoring / motor sailing? Otherwise you would almost certainly have been the stand-on boat.
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