Getting used to heavier weather and bigger waves

[Nor]

We’ve been living on our 39ft cat for half a year now, and sailed around 2000nm around Asia. Often with not much winds, but we’ve encountered some squalls and recently in Thailand had a few days of sustained 22kn+ winds that we sailed into at around 60 to 70 degrees true angle. I’d guess around 1.5 to 2M waves, some more, but they were very "steep". I think the current was against us and the wind. My wife is not very comfortable in those conditions, and while I’m not worried I agreed that it’s not the most comfortable sail.

When I’m thinking about the future with possible sailing across the Atlantic or Pacific, I get a bit concerned that we were already not very comfortable sailing coastal, even though sailing downwind is more pleasant. Yes, we will get more experience prior to that. But how can you compare sailing coastal in 20kn of wind to an ocean crossing? How can I help the wife to get used to bigger seas?

We’ll probably buy a bigger boat at some time (45-50ft) and if located in the Med or Caribbean then we would want to sail back to Asia where we’re normally based. Which could be a great trip if we feel prepared for it.

[fxykty]

Swells in the ocean are generally further apart and wind waves blend into them. In general passages in the trade wind belt are planned to go with or across the trade winds and not against them. The passages down (and back up) to/from New Zealand are exceptions and often considered ‘worst passage ever’. The passage to Queensland Australia from the tropics is easier.

You can sail downwind from Europe to SE Asia except for the aforementioned detour south to avoid cyclone season. Can go north as an alternative.

20 knots will build a 4m swell with a bit of wind wave on top of that. Inshore, 20 knots can build 2m wind waves if there’s opposing current. Going to windward is not that comfortable in a smaller cat like yours and gets vastly more comfortable in a 45-50 foot cat, especially if charter style with a decent weight. Bridgedeck slams are a thing - noisy and violent but not dangerous.

[Kettlewell]

Going to windward is usually not comfortable on most cruising-sized boats, which is why most cruisers try to avoid doing so. One thing to do is to adjust your course slightly for better comfort with regard to the wind angle, sea state, etc., and not for best speed towards the destination. When headed offshore often you can regain the time lost on another day when the winds are favorable, but usually taking an extra day or two on passage is a worthwhile trade off for having a more comfortable trip. If you start sailing in the Med or Caribbean you will quickly develop a level of confidence dealing with higher winds and seas. I feel happy to have learned to sail in New England where we routinely encountered conditions requiring reefing sails, big seas, and rough passages. Still, most of us try to avoid those things whenever possibly, but it is useful to be confident when you do have to deal with less than ideal conditions. We took our children on a two-year cruise down to South America and back and on that trip we never encountered any conditions we hadn't experienced many times in places like Buzzards Bay when the wind was against the current. Several of our friends from New England have circumnavigated or taken long voyages to other places, and they all reported the same thing--nothing they encountered was any different or worse than previous experiences along the New England coast. Once you start sailing around the Med or the Caribbean you will pick up that experience.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Swells in the ocean are generally further apart and wind waves blend into them. In general passages in the trade wind belt are planned to go with or across the trade winds and not against them. The passages down (and back up) to/from New Zealand are exceptions and often considered ‘worst passage ever’. The passage to Queensland Australia from the tropics is easier.

You can sail downwind from Europe to SE Asia except for the aforementioned detour south to avoid cyclone season. Can go north as an alternative.

20 knots will build a 4m swell with a bit of wind wave on top of that. Inshore, 20 knots can build 2m wind waves if there’s opposing current. Going to windward is not that comfortable in a smaller cat like yours and gets vastly more comfortable in a 45-50 foot cat, especially if charter style with a decent weight. Bridgedeck slams are a thing - noisy and violent but not dangerous.

Thanks! I understand that downwind sailing will be more comfortable, even in bigger seas, than to windward. But I've seen videos of people crossing the Atlantic in what looks like pretty rough conditions. Maybe it's the timing, some months are more likely to have more gentle winds and stable conditions.? I'll have to research more into this before we get to this of course.

I assume you could continue directly to Papa New Guinea, or Indonesia instead of doing that 'worst passage ever' to NZ? Or is there short of time to getting all the way there ?

For now, I guess we just continue to build more experience.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Going to windward is usually not comfortable on most cruising-sized boats, which is why most cruisers try to avoid doing so. One thing to do is to adjust your course slightly for better comfort with regard to the wind angle, sea state, etc., and not for best speed towards the destination. When headed offshore often you can regain the time lost on another day when the winds are favorable, but usually taking an extra day or two on passage is a worthwhile trade off for having a more comfortable trip. If you start sailing in the Med or Caribbean you will quickly develop a level of confidence dealing with higher winds and seas. I feel happy to have learned to sail in New England where we routinely encountered conditions requiring reefing sails, big seas, and rough passages. Still, most of us try to avoid those things whenever possibly, but it is useful to be confident when you do have to deal with less than ideal conditions. We took our children on a two-year cruise down to South America and back and on that trip we never encountered any conditions we hadn't experienced many times in places like Buzzards Bay when the wind was against the current. Several of our friends from New England have circumnavigated or taken long voyages to other places, and they all reported the same thing--nothing they encountered was any different or worse than previous experiences along the New England coast. Once you start sailing around the Med or the Caribbean you will pick up that experience.

Is sailing in the Med or Caribbean very different from sailing in SE Asia? In what way?
How do you avoid sailing to Windward in the Med? If winds are from the North and you are already in the south, then just wait?

[JPA Cate]

Nor,

It will be best for your wife if you and she can talk in detail about what it is that she doesn't like. For example, she may be fearful (like not trusting the boat, or the sea). This is a different problem than becoming seasick, cold, wet and terrified, which most women detest. [I don't get it that the guys think it is FUN. It is one huge difference I've experienced.]

If it is seasickness that is the problem, the cure is to find something that helps her stay feeling good, and then fun may happen. If it is fear, then she may be able to talk it out with you. Don't be surprised if the same thing comes up more than once, talking one's self out of things takes work, and confronting weaknesses you might rather not face up to, so it can be a lengthy process. It might actually be helpful to go out for 1/2 days, into greater than normal wind days, and the two of you work on it together. Some people are helped by being told, "we can get to shelter in about 2 hrs." But, don't foreshorten the time. She needs to be able to put her trust in you, the skipper; but she also needs to be competent enough in her own right than you can sleep on your off watch before you head off to cross the Indian Ocean.

If it appeals to her, and there's money enough for it, taking catamaran sailing lessons taught in a course for women could do her a world of good. But letting her body become accustomed to more and different motions will also help her.

Good luck to both of you with it. Sometimes wives take to sailing like a duck to water; but not all women are like that--and not all men are, either. Good luck to you both!

Ann

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Nor

Thanks! I understand that downwind sailing will be more comfortable, even in bigger seas, than to windward. But I've seen videos of people crossing the Atlantic in what looks like pretty rough conditions. Maybe it's the timing, some months are more likely to have more gentle winds and stable conditions.? I'll have to research more into this before we get to this of course.

I assume you could continue directly to Papa New Guinea, or Indonesia instead of doing that 'worst passage ever' to NZ? Or is there short of time to getting all the way there ?

For now, I guess we just continue to build more experience.

Heading north means at least as far as 5*S, so from Fiji, Vanuatu, New Caledonia that means transiting the Solomon Islands and heading for Marshall Islands, Micronesia or Indonesia. Indonesia has a vast cruising area near the equator that isn’t affected by cyclones nor monsoons, while Micronesia and Marshall Islands have fewer inhabited areas but some major centres popular with cruisers.

All ocean passages have seasons, though climate change is moving the months somewhat. Get your hands on Jimmy Cornell’s Ocean Passages of the World (actually, pretty much any of his books). In season passages typically have gentler following winds, though west to east across the Atlantic is almost never fun. It’s also why circumnavigating the planet is easier, albeit further, than doing an Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean circuit.

Start small - Bahamas, Queensland coast of Australia, Adriatic Sea in the Med, Phuket and Langkawi. After a season or ten of that, if it appeals and both of you are keen, venture further. Don’t start with a plan to circle the planet! Unless you also want an ex-wife.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Nor

Is sailing in the Med or Caribbean very different from sailing in SE Asia? In what way?
How do you avoid sailing to Windward in the Med? If winds are from the North and you are already in the south, then just wait?

Yes, if the winds aren’t convenient, wait, enjoy where you’re at, and eventually the winds you want will come.

SE Asia, including western half of Indonesia, is very affected by monsoons - there’s a wet season and a dry season. The eastern half and particularly the north-eastern quarter of Indonesia is near the equator and other than predominant winds has no other monsoonal effects - makes it a great place to spend the southern summer. Winds are generally zero to light, with occasional periods of 15-20 knots. If you aren’t patient then you’ll burn lots of fuel.

Tasmania is also a great summer destination - sail from New Caledonia to Bundaberg (easy, relatively short passage), then day hop down the coast whenever the wind blows from the north.

Caribbean generally has more consistent winds as they are in the trade wind belt. Going one way is great and going the other way can be difficult. And there’s a hurricane seasons that needs to be avoided. The Med is too big and varied for generalisations, but it is subject to temperate continental weather patterns and regional variations. And sudden micro-storms. Lots of motoring in the summer.

No matter where you are, sometimes sailing to weather cannot be avoided. Get a boat that can handle that and learn to enjoy the experience.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Nor,

It will be best for your wife if you and she can talk in detail about what it is that she doesn't like. For example, she may be fearful (like not trusting the boat, or the sea). This is a different problem than becoming seasick, cold, wet and terrified, which most women detest. [I don't get it that the guys think it is FUN. It is one huge difference I've experienced.]

If it is seasickness that is the problem, the cure is to find something that helps her stay feeling good, and then fun may happen. If it is fear, then she may be able to talk it out with you. Don't be surprised if the same thing comes up more than once, talking one's self out of things takes work, and confronting weaknesses you might rather not face up to, so it can be a lengthy process. It might actually be helpful to go out for 1/2 days, into greater than normal wind days, and the two of you work on it together. Some people are helped by being told, "we can get to shelter in about 2 hrs." But, don't foreshorten the time. She needs to be able to put her trust in you, the skipper; but she also needs to be competent enough in her own right than you can sleep on your off watch before you head off to cross the Indian Ocean.

If it appeals to her, and there's money enough for it, taking catamaran sailing lessons taught in a course for women could do her a world of good. But letting her body become accustomed to more and different motions will also help her.

Good luck to both of you with it. Sometimes wives take to sailing like a duck to water; but not all women are like that--and not all men are, either. Good luck to you both!

Ann

Thanks Ann!
She doesn't get seasick, that's a great plus! So it's more of a fear of the bigger seas and wind. It might just be because we haven't experienced that so much yet. I'll try to get her to put words on exactly what it is, and then try to get more experience in different conditions. Ideally it should be just slightly more wind and waves every time to get gradually used to it, however that's not how it happens in real life of course. Maybe we could adjust the course next time to avoid going into the wind when it's a bit more than we want. However when looking at the map that's easier said than done most of the time.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Heading north means at least as far as 5*S, so from Fiji, Vanuatu, New Caledonia that means transiting the Solomon Islands and heading for Marshall Islands, Micronesia or Indonesia. Indonesia has a vast cruising area near the equator that isn’t affected by cyclones nor monsoons, while Micronesia and Marshall Islands have fewer inhabited areas but some major centres popular with cruisers.

All ocean passages have seasons, though climate change is moving the months somewhat. Get your hands on Jimmy Cornell’s Ocean Passages of the World (actually, pretty much any of his books). In season passages typically have gentler following winds, though west to east across the Atlantic is almost never fun. It’s also why circumnavigating the planet is easier, albeit further, than doing an Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean circuit.

Start small - Bahamas, Queensland coast of Australia, Adriatic Sea in the Med, Phuket and Langkawi. After a season or ten of that, if it appeals and both of you are keen, venture further. Don’t start with a plan to circle the planet! Unless you also want an ex-wife.

Thanks, great information!
Yes, we've started small in Malaysia/Thailand, and planning to stay around here for a while longer. However, we started thinking about a bigger boat in the next year or two and it would be much more flexible to also include the Med and Caribbean when looking. I guess ideally we should get some more experience where we are first.

[Kettlewell]

Is sailing in the Med or Caribbean very different from sailing in SE Asia? In what way?

Sailing in the Caribbean in the winter you see lots of 20-30+ winds from the east with big seas unless you are in the lee of an island. One winter we were in St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands and the Christmas Winds would not let up. Outside the harbor seas were 6-8 feet and more every day. Finally, we just gave up waiting for less and went out with a triple-reefed main and did a lot of boisterous sailing around the VI and BVI. We never went with a full main for two months. After awhile you get used to it, but I felt sorry for the charterers who weren't ready for it. But, it's a fantastic area to get used to sailing in bigger winds and seas since you are never too far from a wonderful harbor.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Nor

Thanks Ann!
She doesn't get seasick, that's a great plus! So it's more of a fear of the bigger seas and wind. It might just be because we haven't experienced that so much yet. I'll try to get her to put words on exactly what it is, and then try to get more experience in different conditions. Ideally it should be just slightly more wind and waves every time to get gradually used to it, however that's not how it happens in real life of course. Maybe we could adjust the course next time to avoid going into the wind when it's a bit more than we want. However when looking at the map that's easier said than done most of the time.

That all sounds good to me. They say you always remember your first gale, and in a sense, it has been true for me. (notice my signature) I will say, there is a lot of motion if it's on the beam, and I found it tiring: 19 days of gales on a 22 day passage. It's what happens when you leave too late in a season, and the Pacific High gets sucked down to Mexico where a hurricane is forming. Unlike your good lady, I do get seasick. Jerky motion is what sets me off.

I don't know if it works the same on catamarans, but on our monos, often one can use just the headsail, and never get overpowered. Fxykty's got a very nice boat, but boats that size tend to be more stable than smaller ones. Do pay attention to the other experienced catamaran members.

Ann