Solar system questions

[Xavierp]

First time liveaboard on our newly purchased 2011 SO 409.

No generator onboard
Small fridge
AC
Eventually, water maker.

I’m sure I forget things I’ll need.
But based in your experience what do you think is a good starting point?
I would preferably like a system I can expend. Does it mean a “strong” inverter and then upgrade the panels as technology improves?..

I understand I’ll need at least 800 w, or more if I can afford.
What panel brands are standard and reliable?

Then I’ll need an inverter. 2000 w right?
Any brand?

Batteries….

Thx!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Xavierp

First time liveaboard on our newly purchased 2011 SO 409.

No generator onboard
Small fridge
AC
Eventually, water maker.

I’m sure I forget things I’ll need.
But based in your experience what do you think is a good starting point?
I would preferably like a system I can expend. Does it mean a “strong” inverter and then upgrade the panels as technology improves?..

I understand I’ll need at least 800 w, or more if I can afford.
What panel brands are standard and reliable?

Then I’ll need an inverter. 2000 w right?
Any brand?

Batteries….

Thx!

What boat is that? Do you have a picture? Your starting point is planning a location for the system you want to end at, then find the path to get there.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

What boat is that? ...

Originally Posted by Xavierp

. our newly purchased 2011 SO 409...

Sun Odyssey 409?

[Xavierp]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Sun Odyssey 409?

sun odyssey yes

[Stu Jackson]

In order to answer your question, you need to first do an energy budget (sometimes called energy audit). Then you can start figuring out the size of the different parts to support your use.

[George_SD]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

In order to answer your question, you need to first do an energy budget (sometimes called energy audit). Then you can start figuring out the size of the different parts to support your use.

This.

You need to add up all of the draw and usage through the day. All electrical devices are feed by the batteries, solar is only meant to recharge the batteries.

You need a bat. bank that will support your needs and then enough solar to recharge the batteries. AC is a big draw. You may want to consider using fans more often.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by George_SD

This.

You need to add up all of the draw and usage through the day. All electrical devices are feed by the batteries, solar is only meant to recharge the batteries.

You need a bat. bank that will support your needs and then enough solar to recharge the batteries. AC is a big draw. You may want to consider using fans more often.

and in order to do that you're going to have to develop a profile of your actual projected usage. That will include in addition to the power consumption "budget":

-Where you are going to be and when to determine average insolation, which can be obtained from many websites, the best include adjustments for things like humidity, dust, angle of inclination of the panels and so on

-What does "live-aboard" really mean? 100% at anchor? A night in a slip every week, a week every month, most of the time?

-How often you will move and how much you are likely to use the engine when moving?

-Can you live without running hot water or a microwave oven etc?

and probably a few other things that don't come to mind immediately.

[FlyingScot]

I'm sure everyone will tell you to figure out how much power you use, blah blah blah.

The reality is that you want as much as possible to avoid living like you are camping. Then make compromises from there. Spend more for highly efficient items.

Your list says AC. If you mean air conditioning, this is a lot more energy than you will likely be able to make.

Talk to other SO owners and see who put up the maximum solar and batteries. Buy the best of everything, do it once and then live with what you make.

Disregard anyone who says over paneling your controllers is smart.

Repeat, maximize efficiency every step of the way.

Victron & Blue Sea are great brands to build a system. LG NeonR panels or NeonH BiFacials if you can still find them. It won't be cheap or easy.

Just remember batteries only store energy. A huge house bank won't make any power, but will give you more time for solar to catch up on rainy or cloudy days.

[Xavierp]

[QUOTE=FlyingScot;3800613]
I'm sure everyone will tell you to figure out how much power you use, blah blah blah.
[/QUOTEs]
Hahaha You’re right. I knew I’d get that answer.

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Victron & Blue Sea are great brands to build a system. LG NeonR panels or NeonH BiFacials if you can still find them. It won't be cheap or easy.

Thx for the info

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Victron & Blue Sea are great brands to build a system. LG NeonR panels or NeonH BiFacials if you can still find them. It won't be cheap or easy.

LG bi-facials all gone this side of the pond sadly after they pulled out of the market.

There are some others like Canadian Solar (who are Chinese btw) but not sure of the quality.

Hyundai shingle panels look interesting, as they are smaller for a given power output. Or half cut cells to help limit the shading problems. Decisions, decisions

How about a couple of these bad boys:

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...lar+Module.pdf

[Xavierp]

Originally Posted by Pete7

LG bi-facials all gone this side of the pond sadly after they pulled out of the market.

There are some others like Canadian Solar (who are Chinese btw) but not sure of the quality.

Hyundai shingle panels look interesting, as they are smaller for a given power output. Or half cut cells to help limit the shading problems. Decisions, decisions

How about a couple of these bad boys:

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...lar+Module.pdf

thx for the options, but they don't look encouraging.
It is so hard to find because the market is flooded with products, all from China, which can be ok but I'd like a reliable US customer service...

[GreenWave]

Newpowa and Rich Solar are making good quality and affordable solar panels in the 100W to 300W range. Highly recommend Victron anything.

[s/v Jedi]

Picture of the boat? I hope it has a bit more than the picture posted above….

No Bimini, no dodger, no davits?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Xavierp

First time liveaboard on our newly purchased 2011 SO 409.

Congratulations!

No generator onboard
Small fridge
AC
Eventually, water maker.

I’m sure I forget things I’ll need.
But based in your experience what do you think is a good starting point?

Space for panels, not panel cost, is usually limiting. To some extent you can make more space by accepting more windage, by making a stern arch and putting panels on it. There's still a practical upper bound of around 2000 watts of panels.



I do not use air conditioning. I have 380 watts of panels and find that it makes a huge difference but that it is not enough to stay at anchor indefinitely with the fridge running. While under way we use more power (mainly for the radar and chartplotter but also the autopilot) but there is inevitably a certain limited amount of motoring and with a high-output alternator that makes up for some of that.


With air conditioning, well, on a monohull you'll need all the panels you can fit and then some.

I would preferably like a system I can expend. Does it mean a “strong” inverter and then upgrade the panels as technology improves?..

Panel technology and price are IMO unlikely to improve much in the foreseeable future. The panels themselves are a small part of the cost compared to mounts, wiring, controls, labor, batteries, etc.

What panel brands are standard and reliable?

Any from a reputable dealer, solar-electric.com, emarineinc.com, etc. You want in-country warranty and parts service from someone who cares.

Then I’ll need an inverter. 2000 w right?

I think 2000 watts is a good size for a 40ish-foot boat. You might want to look at the 3500 watt ones because in some cases they have built-in transfer switch components that will reduce the overall complexity and footprint of the installation for very little net cost. The extraordinarily large battery cables (assuming 12v) for the 3500 watt inverters are the main drawback imo.

Any brand?

Victron is sort of the score to beat with this stuff. International sales and support network, widely recognized product readily approved by surveyors and insurance companies, easy to install, easy to troubleshoot, good documentation.

Batteries….

Ballpark think in terms of your solar capacity x 10 hours for lead acid, half that for lithium. I have 380 watts of solar and have a little over 4 kwh of lead acid batteries, for example, which works out well. Over 10 years batteries will be the largest cost item in the electrical system.


I believe that the life cycle cost for lithium is lower than for AGMs, even in the USA, at this point. I don't recommend flooded lead acid batteries on a sailboat but some people do use them. They are cheaper up front, anywhere, and in the USA the cost per year is probably lower than lithium.

[Damir36]

I just build a complete system with 1600 watts solar, 4 X 280 Ah Lithium, 5 Mppts and two DC/DC chargers controlled by a Cerbo. I took everything from Victron, except the Batteries. 5000 Watts Victron Quattro Inverter. But I have the space to fit 10 Panels on my 30 year old) Katamaran So far, with some rainy days, 6 people on board, Watermaker and mini Washing machine no Problems. Once we where down . 46 % Batteries.

If you can afford it, I would recommend to go with Victron, it makes.everything easy to configure. Good help for planning this can be found at RV companies. As a rule of thumb they are a bit cheaper than the yachting companies.