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Old 30-03-2020, 15:08   #91
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Hi, I've been sailing off shore off and on over the last 28 years and am now living in New Zealand. Here is my free advice (guaranteed to be worth what you paid for it).

1) Make sure your partner takes several sailing courses, preferably with an all women's sailing school. It will make a huge difference. I've seen a lot of very unhappy women on boats. I'm a woman skipper and did several offshore training trips with Sea Sense and can also recommend Womanship.

2) After the GFC there were a lot of people with exactly the same plan. Buy a boat sail across the Pacific and sell it for good money in New Zealand or Australia. The reality is that we now have a glut of boats for sale. The sailors who sold their boats quickly did so at low prices. This is not a good place to sell a boat. I just sold mine in Canada because the Pacific Northwest has high demand and a shortage of boats. A note on selling in Australia or NZ. Australia, if you plan to sell your boat in Australia you must pay the import duty on arrival. Friendly brokers (particularly in Bundaberg) will give a low value to Customs, but you still have to pay before listing. NZ Customs is a bit kinder and will work with you. Duty is due on closing.

3) As mentioned above, you will need insurance if you finance. Check with insurance companies first to see what qualifications will be required before they are willing to insure you offshore. ASA courses will probably not be enough. It might help if you did some real offshore sailing first, crew for someone else or take a course from someone like John Neal.

4) A Bavaria might be ok for the milk run to the Pacific. However, these boats weren't built for offshore and are more likely to sustain damage than a more traditional offshore boat. You might look for an older, less luxurious and less expensive boat!

5) I have to admit that I've never sailed in the Med. I have, however, done a full circuit around the Pacific. The Pacific Northwest is one of the most beautiful places I've sailed. I'm sure there is equally stunning sailing on the East Caost of the US. Consider buying closer to home. Doing the maintenance work that need to be done while in your home waters. This will be good training for later. Cruising is just doing maintenance in exotic places (usually with out the parts or tools you thought you needed). Get some experience under your belt, fill the cruising kitty and then take off on your adventure.
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Old 30-03-2020, 16:10   #92
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

I see this as a problem "I have spent the last few weeks"

I'm an Australian, 65 and want to sail the Med and beyond, been harbour sailing for 35 years, I signed up for a 2-week bluewater passage in the pacific last year! boy what an eyeopener it was!!! I suggest both of you get on someone's boat for a couple of weeks to see how you cope before committing YOUR money.
Remember "**** Happens"
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Old 30-03-2020, 16:36   #93
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Coyote View Post
Hi, I've been sailing off shore off and on over the last 28 years...

What a beautiful and full of common sense and knowledge your post is. I’ve been enjoying this thread just for the purpose of reading some amazing responses made by really experienced sailors! This is what makes this forum so great. Your 5 points are so right on!
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Old 30-03-2020, 17:03   #94
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Yes, get some bluewater experience if you can first. I used to do long offshore deliveries some up to 4 weeks and had to find people to go with me for insurance purposes. I'd pay airfares, food etc and give them up to $2,000 after the boat was given back to the owner in better condition than before it left. Always made sure that there as some nice cosmetic work done.
Not once could I find anyone who'd do a long passage twice, and I did all the cooking ( was a cook on tuna boat ) and looked after them well, I'm very easy going. These were all top end boats too with wealthy owners.
Best to find out what it's like out there first. It'll open your eyes and you'll feel your insignificance. You'll know your alive though. Live the dream even if it's a nightmare !!! You'll have something to talk about.
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Old 30-03-2020, 18:06   #95
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

They just get more and more comical. Wow you' have been working on learning to live on an ocean, buy a sailboat , outfit it for cruising and repair the known damage, get it financed and insured for offshore adventure with no sailing experience, and how you're going to dump it in OZ at a minimum loss for two whole weeks AND you still have questions. That's very interesting. Let's see if I can help... Contact Carnival Cruise Lines give them your departure schedule and book an entire deck for you and your partner, that way you can both fly home from the same landfall and still have good relationship long after the cruise is over. You'll come out cheaper , safer, happier, and still have a blast.
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Old 30-03-2020, 18:33   #96
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Sailshabby nailed it.
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Old 30-03-2020, 18:56   #97
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Everything you think it will cost,, multiply by 2, then see if you still have enough $$$.
I fix, refit, work on boats for other cruisers and we are also FT cruisers.
Saying it costs double may be a huge understatement. The unexpected things can always happen.
One cockroach or insect found onboard alone can cost you thousands in Australia., a failed injector pump, auto pilot component, dinghy engine, bad furler, rigging, blown out sail due to an unseen stitch, it all can quickly escalate and drain your account.
I've not worked on many Bavarias but if their rudder system and support base is like a benneteau, I wouldn't cross the Caribbean with it.
And yet hundreds, maybe thousands, of Beneteaus have crossed/are crossing oceans, including my Oceanis 41. BTW, if you're going to trash a brand, at least learn how to spell it.
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Old 30-03-2020, 18:58   #98
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

A few core points to keep in mind:

1. That ocean is a whole lot bigger (and scarier!) than you think it is.
2. Doesn't matter how big the boat is in the marina, it's tiny on the ocean.
3. The more you have, the more you have to lose/break. Applies to loved ones, foreign anchorages, $$$, outboards, as well as engine cylinder count, sails, heads, ad infinitum...
4. If you didn't build it- you don't know how to fix it. ALL boats break and always at the worst times.
5. You won't be worried about import taxes, insurance, bills, or even money when (and it will happen) something goes wrong with the boat (no, you won't know what is wrong or why) as night falls on a storm building on waves you are already terrified of. Think about if you are ready for that responsibility if you are not alone.
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Old 30-03-2020, 19:05   #99
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

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Originally Posted by Steve Carson View Post
I have spent the last few weeks tirelessly looking at boats and learning as much as I can about what it takes to cross oceans. I have formulated the below plan that I would like you all to critique so that I can build a better plan and help others learn as well.

About Me:
28-year old desk jockey who writes financial reports for work and even now during my free time... a new low. I will be traveling with my partner of 5 years. She has no experience and I have 3 weeks of experience sailing 40+ foot Yachts. I intend to get ASA 101-104 certifications before buying. I am the type of person to do things for the story and I would like to cross sailing across oceans off my bucket list.

Destinations & timeframe:
My current plan is to take 2.5-years to sail from the Mediterranean to Australia. I will start with 6 months in the Mediterranean, 8 months in the Caribbean, and the remaining 16 months crossing the pacific into french Polynesia, new Zealand and up the coast of Australia.

Financial situation:
I have saved up $70K USD and have a guaranteed passive income of $11K per year. So over the 2.5 years, I will have a total of $97.5K available to spend.

Boat:
I am looking to purchase a 2015 Bavaria 37 Cruiser (pictures attached) from a charter company in Croatia. The boat is listed for $85K USD and I will be putting down 20% ($17K) and financing the rest. I am assuming that by paying the full asking price I can get them to do $8500 in repairs to bring it up to sail away condition. This would be the equivalent of getting a 10% discount (Fair assumption yes/no?). I would also ask for them to cover closing costs. After the down payment, I will have $53K of savings remaining and $11K a year of income to fund my adventures ($80.5K over 2.5 years).

Financing:
Using a 15-year term for the $68K loan at 7% would make the payments $607 per month, $7284 per year or $18,210 over 2.5 years.

Operating costs:
There is a video on the YouTube video by Sailing Yacht Florence called “How much does it REALLY cost to sail around the world?” and they recorded an average expenditure of $17K per year. The $17K they spent included everything from food to maintenance costs. We plan to be just as frugal as they are but things never go as planned on a sailboat so I will build in an extra $3K of expenses. My total operating costs per year will be an estimated $20K or $50K over the 2.5 years.

Cashflow:
Based on the above calculations and assumptions I should expect an initial payment of $17K, and annual cash outflows of $27K to cover operating costs and the loan repayment.

Depreciation:
I will sell the boat for an assumed 15% loss in Australia where these types of boats fetch a premium compared to the eastern Mediterranean. I believe this is a fair estimate because the same make and model averages a 5% decrease in value every year according to YachtWorld listings. This level of depreciation will leave me with a sale price of $72K for the boat and a remaining loan of $61K, the net of which would leave me with $10K cash in pocket.

Conclusion:
If my assumptions hold true, I will be looking at spending $50K in operating expenses + $17K downpayment + $18K loan repayment - $10K reclaimed at sale = $75K USD for 2.5 years or $30K per year.

Starting with $97.5K cash less $75K for 2.5 years of expenses will leave me with $22.5K for unforeseen costs and surprises and hopefully enough for a flight home from Australia.

Please let me know where you see holes in my plan and comment with any suggestions you have. All feedback is appreciated!
Maybe your overthinking your dreams before they turn into nightmares?
Stop being a bean counter, get a boat and start moving.
You might like it or you might not.
Anyway, good luck
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Old 30-03-2020, 20:31   #100
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

no, mate you've done the homework, no one gets it all right. You are young enough, good plan. I reckon just sail! Whats that term about becoming paralysed by over analysing.
Everyone I ever talk to just says they should have done it sooner!
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Old 31-03-2020, 21:07   #101
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Youtube/Instagram business model to help with the on-going costs. Find some friends who look attractive in bikinis, spend time in a warm climate and get that pixelating video software going. You will find plenty of Patreons to help you get the next titillating video out.

I am a big fan of "learn by doing" and you can worry yourself to complacency if you let these fears overwhelm you. Of course, most cruising boat owners (myself included) are on the wrong side of 50 and nobody wants to see wrinkly oldies frolicking about.

All that said, though, I would make sure this life is for you by crewing on a decent voyage before you start making financial commitments. Plenty of guys spend years or even decades building their dream boats, just to discover after launching that sea life wasn't for them (or their partner) after all.
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Old 31-03-2020, 21:13   #102
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

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Originally Posted by rotgut View Post
Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Youtube/Instagram business model to help with the on-going costs. Find some friends who look attractive in bikinis, spend time in a warm climate and get that pixelating video software going. You will find plenty of Patreons to help you get the next titillating video out.

......
During the covid19 lockdown the pixelating service is not considered an essential service and is therefore banned.
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Old 31-03-2020, 23:33   #103
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Carson View Post
Boat:
I am looking to purchase a 2015 Bavaria 37 Cruiser (pictures attached) from a charter company in Croatia. The boat is listed for $85K USD and I will be putting down 20% ($17K) and financing the rest. I am assuming that by paying the full asking price I can get them to do $8500 in repairs to bring it up to sail away condition. This would be the equivalent of getting a 10% discount (Fair assumption yes/no?). I would also ask for them to cover closing costs. After the down payment, I will have $53K of savings remaining and $11K a year of income to fund my adventures ($80.5K over 2.5 years).

Hi Steve,

I intend to do the same in early 2022, buying a boat in Croatia and Greece. Boats ex charter do not need to be bad (allthough there are people with different opinion as usual). You will buy the boat "as is" and depending on a survey, you might be able to get the price down another 10-20%. The charter company will not do a lot of repairs and it seems to me, better take the money and do repairs by yourself.

A 2015 boat will probably be in a good shape, but your surveyor should have a good look at standing rigging, sails, motor, furlers, keel and rudder.

So much for repairs.

You have to understand, that these boats are equipped for marina hopping in good weather conditions. If you want to do more (like bluewater sailing), you need to consider to buy/do:

1. a complete review of the electrical system (new batteries, solar panels)
2. a well dimensioned anchor and 60-100m chain
3. radar, AIS and long range communication equipment
4. a backup system for your autopilot (vane?)
5. a preventer system or boom brake for your main

5. some spares and tools

I have factored in some 30,000 US$ just for this.



Charter the boat or an equal sized one to make sure you can live on it. 37 feet is a nice boat to sail but a rather small boat to live on, so you have to be sure to be comfortable (especially if you have your partner with you). If you want to cruise, you will be 2/3 of your time anchored or moored.

The bavaria is a good boat, certainly stronger than most of the skippers out there, so good luck and stay away from Corona and drop-bears.

Regards,


-Richard
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:26   #104
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Why not buy the boat and learn to sail with your partner, 3 weeks on another boat is not the same as being responsible for someone else 100miles from safety in a gale!

If you know what you are doing and so does your partner it won't be as frightening, with your combined sailing experience the first problem/bad weather and you will be sailing alone with the crew catching a plane back from wherever you end up.
40 years sailing and I and still learning, get something cheap and lean to sail. Then decide what you both want to do.
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:28   #105
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotgut View Post
Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Youtube/Instagram business model to help with the on-going costs. Find some friends who look attractive in bikinis, spend time in a warm climate and get that pixelating video software going. You will find plenty of Patreons to help you get the next titillating video out.

I am a big fan of "learn by doing" and you can worry yourself to complacency if you let these fears overwhelm you. Of course, most cruising boat owners (myself included) are on the wrong side of 50 and nobody wants to see wrinkly oldies frolicking about.

All that said, though, I would make sure this life is for you by crewing on a decent voyage before you start making financial commitments. Plenty of guys spend years or even decades building their dream boats, just to discover after launching that sea life wasn't for them (or their partner) after all.


Yes and no....
- Currently, there are gazillion YouTube adventure/sailing channels. You gotta be creative, the niche is getting slim.
- Some youtubers with patreon are now reporting lots of pull outs in this financial crisis. If they were living on YouTube revenues, they are in a hardship right now, hard to see recovering soon (donations are usually a surplus, a luxury in this case)
- Look at “Adventures of an old seadog”, this British guy is an old guy with amazing adventures currently in the pacific islands. So, no need to be young and have plenty of bikinis around necessarily.
- sailing to Bahamas is hardly attractive anymore for a YouTube. Now you gotta adventure in Antarctica or lost jungles of Malaysia or northern Norway to establish a really good selling point....
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