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Old 30-03-2020, 09:12   #76
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

My husband and I just got back from spending 2 1/2 years on our boat. We sailed from the East Coast of the United States to Australia. Sure, the arc circumnavigates in the same amount of time but we only traversed half of the club and felt like we were rushing. Maybe you just want to do this to say that you were able to do it, but if you really want to experience the true magic and glory of sailing and especially of the South Pacific then donít rush. Either take longer to get around the world or have the journey rather than the destinations be your end goal.

You will spend a whole lot more time fixing broken stuff on your boat than you expect. We put about $80,000 into fixing up our boat before we left thinking that this would make things easier for us when we were abroad. **** breaks. All the time.Hell, **** breaks on brand new million dollar boats.The reason I mention this is that so often we would find ourselves in a port and we would overhear the fast circumnavigators saying that this country wasnít all it was cracked up to be. The reason was that they had a schedule to attend to and needed to hurry up getting to the next country and didnít have enough time to leave the busy porch and really explore the more remote places that truly bring joy to sailing. If you want the photos, the stories, the experiences youíve got to get out of town. But youwill have to spend Time in many towns getting provisions, going to the hardware store, going back to the hardware store, finding a whole nother hardware store...
Off-topic, I chartered a boat in Croatia wants. They do not take care of their boats. Maybe it was just the people we were renting from but they use the hell out of their boats and didnít seem to really care about keeping them up. Itís my opinion that charter boats have historically been beat to hell by people who donít know how to care for their boat on a daily basis. So if you were purchasing a boat that has been previously chartered then you are likely to come upon some problems with things breaking that you may not have experienced with a privately owned Boat..
Iím not sure if any of this is helpful to you, I really have so much more information I would love to share with you but it may make sense for me to read through your questions and answer things a bit more specifically.
I love that you want to do this and make this happen. You can totally do it and have a wonderful experience. Oh and sidenote, make sure you have great fishing gear! Iíll get back to you on this or you can reach out to me directly. But you can see more about our story at this website:
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Old 30-03-2020, 09:16   #77
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Your time line is not realistic. It is possible, but it wonít be very much fun.

We have been cruising for 12 years and it took the first three years to get comfortable with the boat and the whole notion of living aboard. You have planned your voyage like a business trip. Cruising isnít like that.

I highly recommend rethinking your time line and add in at least as much slack as you have alotted for your voyage. Then think about spending more time in the Med before heading across the Atlantic. You will learn more about your likes, have more time to prepare yourself and your partner mentally for the voyage and you will be able to assess you choice of boat.

Besides with the world going to hell, there will be a lot of excellent boats for sale cheap in the coming months.
Addison J Chan
Threepenny Opera Catalina 42 MK II - Callsign VE3 NBZ
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Old 30-03-2020, 09:46   #78
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Originally Posted by Rucksta View Post
All the advice given rings true to this 65 year old serial boat owner.

As a 28 year old second time owner I was wise enough to ignore sage advice from elders, bought a boat offshore and went fishing diving & sailing.

Unmitigated financial disaster in spite of selling the boat at a profit 10 years later.

Immediate retrospective breakdown showed for the time on cruising grounds (not passage, working on the boat or working to replenish funds) I could have stayed in work, kept the real estate, kept the peak earning years, chartered in exotic locations, flown my guests first class and still be a million or more ahead of the curve

The experience was priceless and changed me in ways that lead to greater success later in life.

If your going to go broke do it before you are 30.
If your going sailing do it while you are young enough to get laid.
Live with the consequences.
This is the first post Iíve ever read on here that makes me think what good advice - albeit mad - and wished Iíd heard and heeded it 33 years ago when I was 28!

(Before reading the referred to post I merely thought the OP was another deluded dreamer!
PS the Ďdaddyí of bloggers started on a beneteau in Italy with no experience!)
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Old 30-03-2020, 09:54   #79
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

I hope your dream comes true. Itís a great dream.
But donít buy it now. Wait until this fall. Youíll see. There will be bargains everywhere.
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Old 30-03-2020, 09:56   #80
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Welcome to the fever dream!

My analysis of your analysis:

1) Make a plan B in case you or your partner don't like cruising. Starting the med is a great way to do that, you can simply quit anywhere along the path before you leave and get back home relatively easily. The med is a great place to learn what you need to know about sailing beyond courses and to get your experience up before you venture out into the ocean. Consider that once you leave the med, you won't be able to sell the boat easily until you reach Australia (i.e., the boat will be especially illiquid during this period).

2) An extra $3K of expenses does not cover the amount of damage and repair your boat will need after this trip for a boat you intend to sell for its full value. You should figure $10K to $15K. Some of it (like gelcoat restoration) you can learn to do yourself, but my maintenance costs for a boat that stays in its slip run to about $3K per year from just normal use. There's a big difference between a "sale ready" boat and a boat that is mechanically sound.

3) Your assumption of a 15% loss is reasonable for an already used boat assuming you're getting a below-market purchase price. However, world-cruisers take as much of a beating as a charter boat, and should be priced accordingly. Market prices are for marina queens.

Ultimately I think your plan is sound, but that you'll be a lot closer to $0 than you think when you arrive in Australia. At your age, I think that's perfectly fine. The worst-case scenario is that you're stuck in Australia on a boat, which is not that bad of a worst case IMHO. I'm sure you can get home on a credit card or a personal loan if need be.

Good luck and keep us posted!
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Old 30-03-2020, 10:32   #81
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Hello. I think your dream is wonderful but... Yachting is a major financial commitment. We were full-time cruisers on a catamaran. In our first 3 weeks our engine blew, $15,000 later plus marina costs, food, etc., it was a major blow. Then a year an a half later our outdrive snapped. More expense. We lived in Key West at the time where they rape you in the boat yards for repairs. What they promised to be done in one week was drawn out to almost a month. Very expensive. I can't imagine what repairs would cost in Australia or in the Caribbean would be, but I would be more prepared financially. I would suggest making sure your navigation, auto pilot and perhaps having a satellite for emergencies. You mentioned your partner has no experience. That was me 3 years ago at 58. We took sailing lessons that was also very costly that just barely covered everything you need to know. I would suggest you and your partner volunteer on a sailboat cruiser to get some real-time experience. Because the first time you run into bad weather your lady may tell you she never wants to step foot on a sailboat again and that maybe the end of your relationship as well!!! The first time I saw big waves in bad weather I was scared out of my mind. Insurance is costly and you should have tow insurance as well. Doing a night crossing for inexperienced sailors is a whole different ballgame. Plus, with this virus, international ports are closed and who knows when they will be open. I would have a long heart-to-heart with your partner and see just how adventurous she really is. Like the other sailors have suggested watch those videos of doing crossings. I wish you all the best. Stay healthy! ��
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Old 30-03-2020, 10:37   #82
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

We are with those who are suggesting that you get some real blue water experience under your keel. And, I mean experience . There are multitudes of things to gain knowledge and get experience at before just waving good bye and leaving the docks.

Seems like your planning is playing at cruising just to say that you have sailed across the oceans.

Another question, do you and your lady love sailing, the ocean, being cold , wet , tired and scared at times, fixing the problems that come up on a vessel, since you may not be near any handy dock side fix it guys. How do you handle rough weather conditions, and emergency situations ?

Boats cost bucks, big bucks, and so does everything associated with them.

A vessel that has been on charter for years, being sailed or motored by many individuals with few knowing what the heck they are doing .

We have a love for sailing, the ocean, the wind, new adventures in paradises all over the planet, plus meeting new people of all cultures, and the feeling of being one with the ocean and being skilled to handle the weather and navigation, and any other bloody thing that rises up. And rise, it will.

Your mate, what is her background. It does not appear to be much sailing, and wham bang, she is on a few years of being on a boat, crossing oceans. There as lots of boats in Tahiti, that made the trip, and are now sitting at the docks with for sail signs.
Another fact is the lady love just flat bails out and flies home when her top siders hit solid ground .

Just this opinion, after many decades as a professional in sailing and motor vessels,
get some actual experience, and make sure both of you love cruising and the sailing life. Well before you sell the farm .

It bothers me that your quote was that you are doing this to cross it off your bucket list. No mention of love or a passion for the sea, or boats, or real knowledge of sailing . No excitement for where you will be sailing and what you will be experiencing . Just a whole lot of number crunching.

Just, an opinion on my part . You wanted input, and it appears that you are getting a lot of help by the other posters .
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Old 30-03-2020, 10:46   #83
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

amazing response. well done sir.

Originally Posted by Rucksta View Post
All the advice given rings true to this 65 year old serial boat owner.

As a 28 year old second time owner I was wise enough to ignore sage advice from elders, bought a boat offshore and went fishing diving & sailing.

Unmitigated financial disaster in spite of selling the boat at a profit 10 years later.

Immediate retrospective breakdown showed for the time on cruising grounds (not passage, working on the boat or working to replenish funds) I could have stayed in work, kept the real estate, kept the peak earning years, chartered in exotic locations, flown my guests first class and still be a million or more ahead of the curve

The experience was priceless and changed me in ways that lead to greater success later in life.

If your going to go broke do it before you are 30.
If your going sailing do it while you are young enough to get laid.
Live with the consequences.
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Old 30-03-2020, 11:03   #84
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Great planning and thinking your way through the complicated process. I commend you and although your numbers may change during the voyage, I say go for it. One piece of advice... buy your boat, live on it and sail it locally for a year. Practice working on the systems, learning sail configuration, practice downshifting (reef/shorten sails), anchoring & provisioning.

When you take off you will be ready.
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Old 30-03-2020, 11:05   #85
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Is that the particular boat? First thing I would do is redo the canvas. Way too much. That's what foul weather gear and clothing is for. It would be like living in a bubble.
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Old 30-03-2020, 11:08   #86
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

First and foremost, get the boat surveyed by a reliable, licensed surveyor. 2nd, get rid of the absurd Bimini over the cockpit as it'll last maybe a minute in your first storm. 3rd, although the ASA training is quite good, it can't teach you everything you need to know to undertake your adventure. I would suggest that you hook a ride with a seasoned captain and make a couple of crossings before you attempt this on your own. True, many people have crossed oceans with less experience than yourself, but they were lucky to have made the trip safely while learning what works and what doesn't. I'd rather be lucky than smart DOES NOT APPLY when sailing a boat anywhere, especially if crossing an ocean. Also, your financial plan is probably inadequate unless you are a very handy do it yourselfer.
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Old 30-03-2020, 11:33   #87
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

I've rethought my original post - it is madness. I'm on passage from UK to Greece on a shoestring budget. Boat was £15k. We passage make for 1-2 weeks a year and have a 1-2 week family holiday. Yes it's a long project but even with so little use - stuff always needs fixing. If I ignore the marina costs whilst not using it - sailing on a shoestring is still bl**dy expensive. Most of our 'maintenance' costs are fixing/replacing the new stuff. The nearly new engine failed early on - original quote to replace @ £8k. Because we were able to can that summer and weedle and deedle got a new 'short' engine for £2k and stripped and fitted for our own labour. Still cost @ another £2k for yard fees and travel. If we'd been'cruising' I wouldn't have had the skills to do it on my own so I'm guessing that and time pressure would have made the original quote of £8k look like the best option. I know I need new rigging but that's another £3 - 4.5k. I can afford it from income - as long as I lie to the Mrs about how much I'm spending! my best guess is £100k yacht will be just as expensive to run as a £15 k boat - actually more because you won't fit it out from ebay and Gumtree/Craigs List. Plus £15k of boat is worth as much as a £100k boat when you come to sell in Aus until you find a buyer but not as painful.
I've owned half of my boat for 5 years now and would happily set off for the Caribbean if I serviced the 3 year old liferaft, bought and EPIRB and changed the rigging - but that's cos I have sailed it through hell and all over 5 years and know what its capable of. For the first two years - I was reluctant to go out of the sight of land in my boat as it wasn't proven - we think we know it now but your ex charter - hmm. As others have said, many bare boat charter companies idea of sound maintenance is similar to 'we've got a day to clean it and turn it round - that should holed for the next week, as long as they don't push it too hard!

Finally with the boat now in splendid Isolation for the foreseeable - if you want to get started on the cheap - give my Missus a ring I reckon she'd more or less give you my beloved Sigma! A double G&T would cover it - fortunately she doesn't know where the papers or the keys are.
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Old 30-03-2020, 11:49   #88
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Note: paying cash does not exempt you from taxes (as OP stated in a previous post).
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Old 30-03-2020, 11:52   #89
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

Originally Posted by Steve Carson View Post
I have spent the last few weeks tirelessly looking at boats and learning as much as I can about what it takes to cross oceans. I have formulated the below plan that I would like you all to critique so that I can build a better plan and help others learn as well.

About Me:
28-year old desk jockey who writes financial reports for work and even now during my free time... a new low. I will be traveling with my partner of 5 years. She has no experience and I have 3 weeks of experience sailing 40+ foot Yachts. I intend to get ASA 101-104 certifications before buying. I am the type of person to do things for the story and I would like to cross sailing across oceans off my bucket list.

Destinations & timeframe:
My current plan is to take 2.5-years to sail from the Mediterranean to Australia. I will start with 6 months in the Mediterranean, 8 months in the Caribbean, and the remaining 16 months crossing the pacific into french Polynesia, new Zealand and up the coast of Australia.

Financial situation:
I have saved up $70K USD and have a guaranteed passive income of $11K per year. So over the 2.5 years, I will have a total of $97.5K available to spend.

I am looking to purchase a 2015 Bavaria 37 Cruiser (pictures attached) from a charter company in Croatia. The boat is listed for $85K USD and I will be putting down 20% ($17K) and financing the rest. I am assuming that by paying the full asking price I can get them to do $8500 in repairs to bring it up to sail away condition. This would be the equivalent of getting a 10% discount (Fair assumption yes/no?). I would also ask for them to cover closing costs. After the down payment, I will have $53K of savings remaining and $11K a year of income to fund my adventures ($80.5K over 2.5 years).

Using a 15-year term for the $68K loan at 7% would make the payments $607 per month, $7284 per year or $18,210 over 2.5 years.

Operating costs:
There is a video on the YouTube video by Sailing Yacht Florence called “How much does it REALLY cost to sail around the world?” and they recorded an average expenditure of $17K per year. The $17K they spent included everything from food to maintenance costs. We plan to be just as frugal as they are but things never go as planned on a sailboat so I will build in an extra $3K of expenses. My total operating costs per year will be an estimated $20K or $50K over the 2.5 years.

Based on the above calculations and assumptions I should expect an initial payment of $17K, and annual cash outflows of $27K to cover operating costs and the loan repayment.

I will sell the boat for an assumed 15% loss in Australia where these types of boats fetch a premium compared to the eastern Mediterranean. I believe this is a fair estimate because the same make and model averages a 5% decrease in value every year according to YachtWorld listings. This level of depreciation will leave me with a sale price of $72K for the boat and a remaining loan of $61K, the net of which would leave me with $10K cash in pocket.

If my assumptions hold true, I will be looking at spending $50K in operating expenses + $17K downpayment + $18K loan repayment - $10K reclaimed at sale = $75K USD for 2.5 years or $30K per year.

Starting with $97.5K cash less $75K for 2.5 years of expenses will leave me with $22.5K for unforeseen costs and surprises and hopefully enough for a flight home from Australia.

Please let me know where you see holes in my plan and comment with any suggestions you have. All feedback is appreciated!
Steve: I think it is just wonderful that you are so inspired and have this vision to set sail, but, like Lihuedooley77's post, I suggest you get some water sailing">blue water sailing under your belt first. Being on a rolling (swells, Steve, Swells!) sea is far different from sailing in protected waters. And being in the middle of the ocean on a dark, dark night when you can see nothing but your wake (and that's most nights) is scary and you'd better know what you are doing. This isn't to put you off, at all, but just help you understand the reality. They never show how dark it is in the middle of the ocean in movies! And experience builds confidence. We did a lot of night sailing to local destinations before we ventured to put our "big toe" so to speak into the open sea--by sailing around Vancouver Island--which was very challenging. Several years later, we sailed from Vancouver Canada down to Mexico via the Baja Peninsula, into the Sea of Cortez, across the Sea (2 1/2 days!, including night sailing in big seas!) to Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta and 200 miles south of that, way north into the Sea of Cortez, and then across the Pacific to Hawaii, through then Hawaiian Islands (even bigger seas--middle of the ocean!) and home to Canada. If you study our blog/website under the Adventure Logs tab, you can read and see what we experienced in our offshore adventure: Time For a Catamaran Adventure – Isn't Time For Yours?. We knew we would be challenged, but we felt confident. At one point, we did have to use our parachute anchor and then our drogue. Are you familiar with deploying and using that equipment? It's a little tricker off a monohull, but definitely can save your boat and, most importantly, you and your sweetie.

We definitely encourage you! This is a wonderful plan. But get some significant night sailing and hopefully a little offshore sailing under your belt before you commit. You can go 200 miles offshore to see what "open water" is like, but choose your weather windows even for that foray!

Go for it! But go for it with planning and preparation!

Carllie & Garett Hennigan
and S.V. Light Wave
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Old 30-03-2020, 12:57   #90
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Re: Ruin My Dreams Please

I will talk about the things that concern me most as thereís been plenty of solid advice.

You should start the approval process for the loan now. It was far more rigorous than I expected and I decided to pay cash.

You're going to spend in excess of 50% the purchase price on that boat in the first year you own it. The boat will ask for all your money and refuse to operate when you run out.

I have an older boat and itís in excellent condition. I do 99% of the work. Iíve had this boat for a year add all the expenses up for the first year and itís over 50% of its value. I could have skipped some things but your plans donít allow for that. I would assume that this boat youíre looking at would require at least triple the amount of work based on whatís ďknownĒ to be a problem.

Which brings me to my next point.. Itís not ready to leave tomorrow so even if you where ready plan on months of preparation and yard/slip fees. I have tons of time due to the nature of my work but even working all week on the boat I still have to stop to wait for supplies to arrive. I canít imagine what thatís going to be like for you outside the US if you scramble to leave. If you think itís a week of work multiply it by three.

My advice is buy a $30k cream puff and learn about the process of buying and maintaining a boat. Youíre going to be out $30k in repairs and upgrades alone on the Bavaria. This is a price point that allows for a mistake to be made without destroying your finances. There are a ton of boats in that range that will allow you to accomplish your goal. If you still want the Bavaria just sell the starter boat.
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