Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

[a64pilot]

OK, I’m in the St Johns river now, just up river from Green Cove Springs, so does that make it my base of operations?
I’m doing this intentionally , not just trying to be argumentative, but you say insert arbitrary number here, but heck that is tough, one day, one month? What basis do you have for either?
I’m certain that is why right now the definition of “resident” if you will is so vague and only gives a couple of examples, but no requirements, cause it’s darn near impossible to come up with a list of requirements you can defend.

Every time any agency tries to tighten a requirement to close loop holes, in effect they open up more. Look at I’m sure the tax code, or my experience is FAA FAR’s. The intent is clear, but they always go back and try to tighten up the reg and get explicit, but often it opens up even more loop holes, should have stayed with intent. That increases their workload cause now they have to interpret the regulation, and they don’t want to do that of course.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But back to the point. If I buy a slip in Clay County, but I’m never there, does that make me more of a Resident?

Nope.

You might get away with it but if they check you out and you don't falsify where you reside, you won't qualify.

In your example, you never had any immediate intent to reside in Clay County and you never resided in Clay County...thus you are not a resident.

Owning property in order to get voting rights is a red herring in this discussion. Residing is the issue. Rent a slip and reside at that slip and you meet the intent. Heck anchor long term in the County and you qualify.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

OK, I’m in the St Johns river now, just up river from Green Cove Springs, so does that make it my base of operations?
I’m doing this intentionally , not just trying to be argumentative, but you say insert arbitrary number here, but heck that is tough, one day, one month? What basis do you have for either?
I’m certain that is why right now the definition of “resident” if you will is so vague and only gives a couple of examples, but no requirements, cause it’s darn near impossible to come up with a list of requirements you can defend.

Every time any agency tries to tighten a requirement to close loop holes, in effect they open up more. Look at I’m sure the tax code, or my experience is FAA FAR’s. The intent is clear, but they always go back and try to tighten up the reg and get explicit, but often it opens up even more loop holes, should have stayed with intent. That increases their workload cause now they have to interpret the regulation, and they don’t want to do that of course.

Are you planning to anchor there on a permanent basis (or at least as a primary base where you spend a significant portion of the year)...if yes, then you can legitimately establish that you are a resident.

If you are just stopping for a couple nights with the primary intent to claim residency with no intent to actually reside there...no.

Duration, job address, license, mailing address, etc.... are criteria that can be used by officials to assess non-standard claims of residency but meeting or not meeting one criteria doesn't automatically put you in or out. This makes sense...as you pointed out there can be many variations and someone legitimately residing may fail one of the tests.

In practice, if it's not clear cut, the authorities are likely not to pursue anything...but the vast majority of people likely to be impacted have absolutely no link to Clay County beyond a mail forwarding service. They don't reside there and don't intend to reside there...end result it's pretty clear cut that they aren't residents.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

In your example, you never had any immediate intent to reside in Clay County and you never resided in Clay County...thus you are not a resident.

Agree with most of your points.


The law is vague as to what constitutes "good faith" intent.



"Immediate" intent as you stated might narrow it down but "immediate" would then have to have parameters.


Avoiding state taxes is unlikely to be successful if one continues to live and earn taxable income in another tax state.


RV's, Cruisers, who are traveling away from a tax state might benefit from a SBI address but, talk about being murky, lots of if's there.

[john61ct]

Those RVers using campgrounds for DL / domicile address usually just show a receipt for a 30-day stay.

From a marina that allows liveaboard would probably suffice as well.

Obviously if you are "undomiciling" from a high tax state, you would need to also cut as many ties to back there as possible - to a judge the legal standard would be much higher than the minimum the DMV and voter registrar requires.

[a64pilot]

I’m a Fl resident, pretty sure of that.
I don’t think you can get a drivers license for a State without residing there. Car is registered in Fl using St Brendan’s Isle address, as is the boat.
Way I see it is the State of Florida has accepted me as being a resident, have they not?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Those RVers using campgrounds for DL / domicile address usually just show a receipt for a 30-day stay.

Way past that I think, State has issued me a drivers license, car and boat registration, and just this week I renewed my airplanes registration with the Federal Government, all with my Clay Co Fl address.
So tell me, if not in Clay County, where is my home of record?

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Those RVers using campgrounds for DL / domicile address usually just show a receipt for a 30-day stay.

From a marina that allows liveaboard would probably suffice as well.

Obviously if you are "undomiciling" from a high tax state, you would need to also cut as many ties to back there as possible - to a judge the legal standard would be much higher than the minimum the DMV and voter registrar requires.

The issue is about those who claim Clay County residency but don't actually live in Clay County.

Obviously if someone actually resides in Clay County on their RV or boat and complies with the other provisions of the law then they can make a good case that they are residents of Clay County.

What Clay County statute only require RVers to show a receipt for 30 days? This has not been referenced so far.

[sailorboy1]

I own a house in Jacksonville Fl. I don’t live in it and rent it to my daughter. I’ve never lived in that house but it’s my residence and on my FL drivers license and I’m a regristred voter there.

It’s not really any different from SBI. Other than who wants to live in GCS?

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Way past that I think, State has issued me a drivers license, car and boat registration, and just this week I renewed my airplanes registration with the Federal Government, all with my Clay Co Fl address.
So tell me, if not in Clay County, where is my home of record?

Do you live or have you ever lived in Clay County?

Do you have a Clay County address other than a mail forwarding service?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Way past that I think, State has issued me a drivers license, car and boat registration, and just this week I renewed my airplanes registration with the Federal Government, all with my Clay Co Fl address.
So tell me, if not in Clay County, where is my home of record?

Illegal aliens can get drivers licenses in some states but I think most reasonable people would challenge the assertion that they are legal residents of the state.

The fact that the state didn't do it's due diligence before assigning you state documentation is different from being legitimately a resident of Clay County.

Where was the last stationary place that you resided? That is most likely the correct place of residence.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I own a house in Jacksonville Fl. I don’t live in it and rent it to my daughter. I’ve never lived in that house but it’s my residence and on my FL drivers license and I’m a regristred voter there.

It’s not really any different from SBI. Other than who wants to live in GCS?

You are able to do that because owning the house, which then led to the drivers license and voter registration fulfills the overt act part of the law.

Owning property is not a requirement but it does make a statement (as would renting) particularly as you are also living on your boat and cruising. You even spend time on the boat in FL.

No one can reasonably infer that you do not have a good faith intention so you appear to be in compliance.

[sailorboy1]

Far as I’m concerned my owning a house in Florida I don’t live in isn’t any different than a mailing address. If a cruiser doesn’t rent or own a house etc and they get their mail at a post office box that’s their residence. There are lots of States that declare you a resident if you stay in a marina too long so they tax your boat. That’s using the same reasoning in reverse.

The real answer to this SBI voter thing is for cruisers to actually vote and get rid on the aholes causing the problem.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I own a house in Jacksonville Fl. I don’t live in it and rent it to my daughter. I’ve never lived in that house but it’s my residence and on my FL drivers license and I’m a regristred voter there.

It’s not really any different from SBI. Other than who wants to live in GCS?

No, it's not really any different.

You are likely registered in the wrong place but it's just so much harder for the authorities to catch on that you aren't legitimately a resident of Jacksonville that they are unlikely to ever correct the mistake.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Far as I’m concerned my owning a house in Florida I don’t live in isn’t any different than a mailing address. If a cruiser doesn’t rent or own a house etc and they get their mail at a post office box that’s their residence. There are lots of States that declare you a resident if you stay in a marina too long so they tax your boat. That’s using the same reasoning in reverse.

The real answer to this SBI voter thing is for cruisers to actually vote and get rid on the aholes causing the problem.

One difference is that you could actually live in that house if you wanted to.

That is not the case with SBI or any other mailing facility.

Also, living on your boat can trigger residency but that is because you ARE actually living there.