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Old 19-07-2018, 13:39   #91
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Far as Iím concerned my owning a house in Florida I donít live in isnít any different than a mailing address. If a cruiser doesnít rent or own a house etc and they get their mail at a post office box thatís their residence. There are lots of States that declare you a resident if you stay in a marina too long so they tax your boat. Thatís using the same reasoning in reverse.

The real answer to this SBI voter thing is for cruisers to actually vote and get rid on the aholes causing the problem.
The above is certainly not how the law operates wrt determining legal domicile.

Thousands of people (think they) are legally domiciled in South Dakota, but their only visit to the state may have been the 2-3 days required to pick up their DL at the DMV.

If you have little income and few assets maybe no one cares about the work required to establish otherwise.

But if the customers of the mail forwarding business are 5000x the local population, and start voting in local elections without ever being otherwise involved, you can be sure the local / state government will want to remedy that unwelcome side effect.

And IMO quite rightly so.
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Old 19-07-2018, 13:45   #92
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

I highly encourage those interested in the topic of legal domicile to read these articles.

https://www.escapees.com/education/domicile/

This in particular for those formerly in a high-tax jurisdiction https://www.escapees.com/former-state-breakup/

Obviously consulting an attorney experienced in these matters would be good idea if your financial situation calls for it.

The idea of "voting rights" in local elections if you aren't a part of the community is obviously not rationally important to anyone but the locals there.
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Old 19-07-2018, 14:03   #93
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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Changing our voting system would require a Constitutional Convention of States
I guess you haven't heard of the National Popular Vote interstate compact.

As soon as it is passed in enough states possessing 270 electoral votes, the Electoral College becomes immediately irrelevant, no constitutional amendment required.

And good riddance too, since they failed to do the job the were supposed to in 2016.

Under the compact, the winner would be the candidate who receives the most popular votes on election day, every citizen from every state's vote becomes equally important.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...er-to-reality/
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Old 19-07-2018, 14:07   #94
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Then you have this.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.sacbe...215095600.html
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Old 19-07-2018, 14:12   #95
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Iím a citizen, I get a say.
Currently you may.

Doesn't mean you should, in local elections, unless you have real ties to that community.

Those that are **only** customers of a letterbox service, should not have a say in the local government.
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Old 19-07-2018, 14:14   #96
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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Bravo, good for them.

Thanks for bringing that to our attention, nice to see an occasional ray of hope in our country's future.
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Old 19-07-2018, 14:46   #97
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Sorry, I was interrupted and could not finish my post. Here is the intro to the piece.

July 18, 2018 10:38 AM
San Francisco began registering non-citizens, including undocumented immigrants, to register to vote Monday in the November election for the city school board, reported The San Francisco Chronicle.

The move follows passage of a 2016 ballot measure by San Francisco voters opening school elections to non-citizens who are over the age of 18, city residents and have children under age 19, reported the publication.


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Old 19-07-2018, 15:01   #98
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Different issue, Iím not here illegally, and calling them a more politically acceptable name doesnít change the fact they are.
I own some furniture and other belongings in storage in Ga. I sold the house and land.
I do no work in any other State and will of course pay taxes on my income if due to my State of residence.
Now I donít want to vote on the dog catcher or mayor or local cop or whatever, however itís a slippery slope when you start deciding on who can and who canít vote.
My belief is the reason when the country was founded that you had to be a property owner, was that is who paid taxes, and their idea, not mine was only taxpayers should determine how the taxes were spent.
However has now become that all you have to have is be of age and have a warm body, and I guess not be a convicted felon, if you meet those requirements you have the right to vote.

Voting is not really the issue here, establishing residency is. I give a darn whether Iím a resident of anywhere or not, however my Federal Government requires me to be a resident of somewhere in order for me to own an airplane, exercise my privileges as a mechanic, pilot and inspector, have a bank account etc.
Itís not my idea, it is theirs. Iíd just as soon not bother. It cost me $300 per automobile for ďnew car on the roadĒ fees to register them in Fl.

So all you experts, where is someone like me or traveling nurses, or other retirees supposed to claim as a residence?
Some say well use a family members address or friend, but how is that any different at all than using a mail forwarding agency like SBI? You donít live there either, and donít intend to either. I spend more time in Fl than any other State, and if I retire Stateside, it will likely be in Fl, and why not Green Cove Springs? It ticks a lot of boxes for me, pretty rural, close to a large city, close to a military base.

It seems to me that the ones who object, do so on the basis of well I donít get to, they shouldnít either.

Well, you do get to, if you decide to, just donít cry about us that have.
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Old 19-07-2018, 15:11   #99
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

It sounds like your legal domicile is indeed at that location, and yes you can vote there, fair or not, for now.

However the day will come IMO that you will find that address does not work for the database of some organization that you would like to (or have to) join.

If that org is not gov, then you may be able to just use a friend/family or other non-mail forwarding address, and keep the rest of the databases pointing to your current one.

But for me, I want all my credit reporting etc orgs tge same as my gov ones, everything to be consistent in one place.

I only use the letterbox address as a **mailing** address, all the databases point there.

But never do I claim to **reside** there.

I'm not saying this is the only way to go.

But I believe this stuff will become tighter, more difficult for true rootless nomads, before it (if ever) gets easier, and

I believe the above is relatively future proof.
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Old 19-07-2018, 15:43   #100
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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And good riddance too, since they failed to do the job the were supposed to in 2016.

I am not going to undo my ad blocker to click on your link.

You made the comment that the Electoral College failed in 2016 to do the job that they were supposed to do. I assume that you are looking at this election through the prism of your candidate losing.

In fact the Electoral Congress functioned exactly as it was supposed to.

The USA is a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy and there is good reason for that.

Our Federal government was founded on the principle of all states being equal. The individual states came together to form a national government to manage the national security and establish a central monetary system. Beyond that the states would essentially run themselves.

The Founders realized that different states would have different priorities, interests and even values. They also knew that different states would also have different levels of population so they set up the Electoral system to compensate for that.

Letís look at what actually happened in 2016.

Your candidate won CA by approximately 4.3m votes. However, nationally her total vote count slipped to approximately 2.8m more votes. So, aside from CA, she lost the rest of the country by approximately 1.5m votes.

You might think it is best if we allow CA to choose our Presidents but the Founders knew that the Republic would not stand if a large state could do that.


It has worked pretty well for a very long time.
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Old 19-07-2018, 15:44   #101
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

First, this is not a matter of what any of us feels is right or wrong, it’s a matter of law.

SF may have the legal right to allow illegal immigrants to vote in a local election.

Clay county does not have the legal standing to deny someone their right to vote.

So it comes to deciding WHERE someone is most closely connected. Simply owning property, real or otherwise is of no use. An investment is an investment no matter if it is a house or stocks.

If one is a citizen and entitled to vote, and is withou a domicile, then it is logical to ask “Well where DO you have connection?” And if that answer is “Sir, my best connection is through my address where I receive my mail and bills and birthday cards.” then that is the answer.

If you were to deny THAT connection then the citizen is left without a voting place. And that is a violation of his right as a citizen.

You see there must be a remedy, and it can not be to deny his right to vote. That would violate federal law and the constitution.

Now Clay County may petition to have said person debarred from voting in LOCAL elections. That argument might have standing. But to remove them from the voting register an unconstitutional act.
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Old 19-07-2018, 15:47   #102
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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So all you experts, where is someone like me or traveling nurses, or other retirees supposed to claim as a residence?

Where you actually live?
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Old 19-07-2018, 15:55   #103
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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Voter registration in the US is keyed to residency. And that applies to all 50 states and the insular possessions as well. The flaw is, no one ever intended for transients and vagrants to be able to vote, particularly when voting meant changing *local* officials.

Logically the only way to correct this would be at the Federal level, where some system would have to be implemented to allow federal citizens the right to vote in federal elections (and federal only) where residency was not a factor. So, all the SBI clients would be able to vote for president--but not for Senator, or dogcatcher, since they really should have no say in those offices.

Such a system is in fact in place, the UOCAVA.


https://www.justice.gov/crt/uniforme...tee-voting-act


It is difficult for me to believe that inability to vote in state or local elections is a deal killer for any more than a small minority of travelers. The greater problem is that being registered to vote is one of a number of useful ways to establish residence for other purposes.



Quote:
I suspect SBI don't have the interest in being the folks who bring that fight all the way up to the US Supreme Court, because that will be ten years of lawsuits before Congress is ordered to do something. And then again, they still might lose the case.
Residence is determined by state law. Both statutes and case law vary widely from state to state.
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Old 19-07-2018, 17:36   #104
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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Where you actually live?
I actually Live on a boat! Why does the boat have to sit in one place so I can vote?
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Old 19-07-2018, 17:38   #105
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Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

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What rights does UOCAVA give me?

If you are a qualified voter protected by UOCAVA, in elections for federal office, the state in which you are qualified to vote must (1) permit you to register to vote and request an absentee ballot if a request is received by the 30th day before the election;
Assuming I am a “qualified voter” the question becomes defining “the state in which you are qualified to vote...”

How do you define the above?

If Fl is removing you from the roles, and you have no better connection, then they are removing your right to vote. I don’t see how this policy solves the problem.
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