Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-07-2018, 11:46   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
It seems pretty clear: we receive mail there, register our cars there and someday in the future we intend to reside there. So why canít we vote there? I am 65 and at this point in my life I fully expect to move to Clay County in 25 or 30 years...... When we get old and move ashore.
"Intend" is not the same as doing. What if a political party set up a dummy mail service in a state that leans towards the other political party and have people from a districts that lean strongly their way say they "intend" to someday move to the state and thus they want to vote in their intended district. That would meet your standard but would clearly be an attempt to manipulate the system.

Out of curiosity, I did a little more checking. If you don't have a residence, the law says you can vote in your last place of residence (if you were born outside the USA or otherwise never had a residence, you vote in your citizen parents last residence).

It's a less than ideal compromise but makes sense balancing the right to vote and having some link to the community where you vote. It also means that most of the people using the mail forwarding service shouldn't be voting in address of the mail forwarding company.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 11:57   #47
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 923
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
This attempt at removing voting rights is exactly why we want to be able to vote! The state and presidential voting stations are run by the city/county... if we are struck from the voting roles at that level we can't vote in those elections either!

I hate to get political here but this IS a political thread - This is all about the new Republicans trying to strike democratic voters from the voter registration rolls. We pay taxes to the county even though we do not live there, no voting rights or no taxes.

Good grief.

If you hate to get political then don't get political. Clearly you don't hate it all that much.

The voting laws apply to all regardless of party.

SBI and the cruising community are just a tiny part of this and are likely statistically insignificant.

However, I doubt that anyone would be in favor of having carpetbaggers on a large scale having access to determining their US Reps, US Senators or how their state goes re POTUS/VPOTUS.

Unless one is in favor of the slippery slope of selective enforcement of laws then it is essential that the laws be applied evenly and as written.

BTW, what taxes do you pay to a FL county that you don't live in or own property in?
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 12:10   #48
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 923
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
It seems pretty clear: we receive mail there, register our cars there and someday in the future we intend to reside there. So why can’t we vote there? I am 65 and at this point in my life I fully expect to move to Clay County in 25 or 30 years...... When we get old and move ashore.
Saying that you fully intend to do something way out in the future at an age where you could likely be deceased hardly fits the definition of "good faith" intention.

Many FL residents do not want carpetbaggers voting in our elections for obvious reasons.

As has been stated, there are ways to vote in the state that you are/were actually from so you are not disenfranchised by complying with FL laws.
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 12:25   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
We pay taxes to the county even though we do not live there, no voting rights or no taxes.
What taxes?
- You pay for your drivers license, which isn't a tax and really is a loss when you consider the cost of administrating the license system.
- You might pay for registration...if you keep the boat in Florida...but again, they aren't making money on it.
- No personal property tax in the state.
- No state income tax.

What taxes are you talking about?
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 13:01   #50
Registered User
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Aboard
Boat: Hatteras CPMY 63í
Posts: 898
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
Saying that you fully intend to do something way out in the future at an age where you could likely be deceased hardly fits the definition of "good faith" intention.

Many FL residents do not want carpetbaggers voting in our elections for obvious reasons.

As has been stated, there are ways to vote in the state that you are/were actually from so you are not disenfranchised by complying with FL laws.
I believe that it precisely meets the good faith requirement. There is no time limit in the law as written for the move, just an intent in good faith. As far as being alive at that time, I could die in the next 10 minutes or in 40 years but that does not change my intent.

If the legislature wished to add a requirement for a timely move, they could have and would have done so. Since they did not, apparently they don’t care and if they don’t care why should I? Better to just obey the law as written, trusting that the lawmakers knew what they were doing.
Woodland Hills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 13:04   #51
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 923
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
I believe that it precisely meets the good faith requirement. There is no time limit in the law as written for the move, just an intent in good faith. As far as being alive at that time, I could die in the next 10 minutes or in 40 years but that does not change my intent.

Right
.
So, we look forward to that distant day when you arrive in FL to begin your residency and voting participation.
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 13:18   #52
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,465
Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
Right
.
So, we look forward to that distant day when you arrive in FL to begin your residency and voting participation.


Why not?
For the 20+ yrs I was in the Army I was a Fl resident, (Wakulla co.) and clearly didnít live there. I lived in Kuwait, Korea, Bosnia, Germany, Al. Ga.,Tx., but never Fl.
Retired in Ga, moved to Al, back to Ga., and now Fl.
Why should I not be allowed to vote, because I live on a boat?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 13:40   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
I believe that it precisely meets the good faith requirement. There is no time limit in the law as written for the move, just an intent in good faith. As far as being alive at that time, I could die in the next 10 minutes or in 40 years but that does not change my intent.

If the legislature wished to add a requirement for a timely move, they could have and would have done so. Since they did not, apparently they don’t care and if they don’t care why should I? Better to just obey the law as written, trusting that the lawmakers knew what they were doing.
When you die is irrelevant.

When the legislation doesn't spell out in excruciating detail the time limits...the court makes a determination of what is reasonable.
- If you just got a job locally and have an offer on a local house with the plan to move next month and you get the ball rolling a little early signing up for voter registration, they will likely accept that you intended to move there. The whole pattern supports it.
- If you have never been to the city, you don't own property, you don't have a rental, you don't have a job locally, you don't have any link other than a mail forwarding service and you might move there 5-10yrs from now, I'll give you 1000-1 it won't hold up that you meet the "intent" standard to move there.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 13:42   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Why not?
For the 20+ yrs I was in the Army I was a Fl resident, (Wakulla co.) and clearly didnít live there. I lived in Kuwait, Korea, Bosnia, Germany, Al. Ga.,Tx., but never Fl.
Retired in Ga, moved to Al, back to Ga., and now Fl.
Why should I not be allowed to vote, because I live on a boat?
Military is a special case as you go where they tell you to go but aren't forced to give up your local residency. But the rules are still consistent anyway. You are allowed to claim the last place you resided or if you actually reside on a Florida base, you are allowed to use that. In both cases, you must actually have resided there at some point.

Thinking I might move to the Hamptons some day doesn't mean I can vote there.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 15:21   #55
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 6,814
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Googled vote with no address USA

Assumingbthis info is correct I see be reason why the vote should be denied if you have a FL DL.

Found this.

https://www.headcount.org/voting-faq/

Quote:
Can I register if I have US citizenship, but am living abroad and don’t have my own permanent address in the USA?
YES. In this case you must register at the last address you had before you left the USA, or at the address to which you will return. If the latter, you may not simply pick the place you would like to return to in an ideal world; there must be some indication of a present intent to return and live there (e.g. vehicle registration, driver’s license, property ownership, family, etc). If you have never had a permanent address in the United States but are a citizen you are allowed to register at an address you plan on moving to or an address where you currently have family living. The Overseas Vote Foundation provides excellent information and resources on all matters related to registering and voting from abroad.

HeadCount has compiled all of the information you need to answer your voting questions. Your voting FAQ! Learn about researching candidates, voting accessibility, voting requirements, when & how to vote, overseas & student voting, voting early, and what to bring with you on election day!

Research assistance provided by:
FELN-Logo-Large-Blue-Text
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2018, 17:30   #56
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,465
Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
You are allowed to claim the last place you resided or if you actually reside on a Florida base, you are allowed to use that. In both cases, you must actually have resided there at some point.

Thinking I might move to the Hamptons some day doesn't mean I can vote there.

Uh, no you donít have to actually have lived there for the Military. I changed my home of record on my first re-enlistment. I was in Tx when I first enlisted. I changed it primarily due to lack of state taxes.
Itís actually called home of record, a desire to move there after you get out is all that is required.
How long were you in?

I believe that the desire to move to the Hamptons is all that is required, if your desire is manifested with you demonstrating that intent.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 06:14   #57
Registered User
 
SV_Harbinger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2018
Location: Naskentucket Bay
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 197
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

When I was Navy I used TX as my home of record as well and for the same reason, however I was stationed I WA at the time and I was/am from MA. As far as the voting situation as it stands in FL I really don't have much to contribute, but I am following the thread as an interested party as I am considering relocating down that way ish ... And I have no intention of living anywhere but Harbinger, anytime in the foreseeable future.
On a side note the marina I stay at in the winter let's me receive mail at their office all year even when I'm on my mooring and not in their slip, they just call me and let me know it's there.
SV_Harbinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 06:45   #58
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,957
Images: 25
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

For what its worth, I suspect that for some, if not many, expats from high tax states--New York, Conn, NJ, Cal, etc. having a SBI "address" is a means of avoiding demands for state taxes from their former homes of record. Their "residency" is "proved" by having FL drivers' licenses, and voter registration cards. In our case, when we permanently relocated to Florida from Newport Beach, Ca in 1992, we continued to get state income tax demands from the Calif. Franchise Tax Board for several years, and dunned for payments of Personal Property Taxes on our boat from the County until 1997! (They even filed a "Delinquent Tax Notice" on our credit report although we were eventually able to get that removed.) Calif. finally gave up when we provided "certified" copies of our Fla Drivers' Licenses, Voter Registration Cards, and Homestead Exemption on our house--then in the Ft. Lauderdale area. (I did get a threatening/warning letter from Calif at one point warning me that I could be subject to arrest for non-payment of taxes if I ever returned to Calif. I responded that I'd keep that in mind when we planned our vacation spending.)

I suspect that in the case of the other high tax states, they'd be no less aggressive about collecting tax payments from their expats, no?

If the County Voter Registrar where SBI is situated refuses to allow SBI "customers" to register for voting as a means of proving their non-residency in their former home states to those states taxing authorities, SBI customers will take their business elsewhere. No?
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 07:27   #59
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,465
Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Income and property tax are pretty cut and dried.
Work in a State, and your paying taxes in that State if it collects them, same for property.
I donít believe that the Snowbirds are getting out of taxes from ďhomeĒ.

We are actually a small fry, when you consider all the traveling Nurses and Contract workers that travel to where the best paying job is, and all the people that live in RVís, the Boat crowd is sort of small.

But back to the point. If I buy a slip in Clay County, but Iím never there, does that make me more of a Resident?
Property ownership in order to vote has for whatever reason been given a very black eye in the US, itís been touted as keeping others down etc.
I donít think property ownership will be considered as a way to determine voting rights, nor do I see residency being the way, I stayed in a Motel 6 last night, am I a resident?

I paid Fl State sales tax on my boat when I purchased it, does that make me a resident?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2018, 07:53   #60
Registered User
 
SV_Harbinger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2018
Location: Naskentucket Bay
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 197
Re: Liveaboard voting rights threatened in Clay County FL

Technically no, however for the sake of argument, I would say residing physically in a place would make you a resident after a certain amount of time (insert arbitrary number here) or possibly having your base of operations so to speak, in a certain area should qualify you as a resident wether or not you permanently reside there or not as local laws, bylaws, regulations what have you could directly effect you. That being said I would say the last part would make the most sense when trying to be applied to a cruiser, but it's all pretty grey
SV_Harbinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
liveaboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GPS System Threatened jrd22 Navigation 7 07-03-2010 16:32
Clay Pot Heater? Marauder Off Topic Forum 19 27-03-2007 19:44
Rights? What rights..... swagman General Sailing Forum 7 12-10-2005 10:27

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.