How Many "Blue Water Cruisers" are There

[mvweebles]

This thread reads like a bunch of old farts lamenting "back in the day" stories. I can't speak to blue water, but anchorages and marinas in Pacific Coast cruising grounds are busier than ever. Maybe they do it differently than old farts think they should, but they're out there doing something.

Interesting NYT podcast this morning on comparison of demographics and underlying causes of wealth creation - focus on millennials vs boomers.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR...OTRmNDJl?ep=14

[MicHughV]

True, there are a lot of old farts here, but I think "lamenting" is the wrong word.

We just say it like we remember it and we can see the difference between then and now as we were there back "then" but still around "now"

It matters not whether it's good, bad or indifferent, merely a point of view backed by some "experience".

[mvweebles]

Arguably the first "modern" cruisers were Eric and Susan Hiscock in the late 1950s who documented their circumnavigation with a movie camera BBC loaned to them. Self steering wind vane has not been invented yet so they hand steered or set lines to their helm.

Since then, technological advanced have enabled successive generations of sailors. Self steering windvane was obviously pretty dang important. Fiberglass production boats. LORAN then GPS displaced celestial navigation. Water makers. Refrigeration. Generators then solar power. Heck, even anchors and anchor windlasses have come a long way. Affordable modern electronics and AIS. Most recently, Starlink. At each step cruising has become more accessible. The Pardeys made a living writing about the good old days and cautioning about accepting modern advances. In the last decade or so, YouTube has given a curated Birdseye view into the lifestyle which has allowed forums like this a gallery seat.

I'm pretty sure each aging generation of cruisers have been leery of the upstarts as being too uninformed, too inexperienced. It's part of life I suppose. But sometimes it sounds sour and condescending. New entrants into cruising are doing it differently today because the tools are different. They face much different barriers than previous generations did.

[rslifkin]

Thinking about it, the availability of information in the modern world may have an impact on where people want to cruise. It's not necessarily the same idea of "I want to sail around the world", but more "I want to go to these places" as there's far more information about various destinations, getting there, etc.

For me personally, I love being on the boat, traveling, etc. The other half likes it, but not quite as much (but she didn't grow up boating, whereas I did). And the dog likes it more than anyone I think. At the same time, neither of us feels any need or desire to cross an ocean. There are so many places worth going that don't require an ocean crossing and are more achievable without giving up everything else in life.

[MicHughV]

To put this in perspective.

I was inspired by Robin Lee Graham's epic rtw voyage documented by National Geographic.
I was still in High School then, back in the 60's, and thought to myself, this is awesome.

At the time I lived 100's of miles from any ocean and had no idea how I was going to accomplish any sailing of any kind. I certainly didn't have a dad willing to purchase me a boat of any size for any reason.

Then somebody stuck a Bruce Roberts" Build your own Boat" catalog in my face, and thumbing thru' the pages I came to the BR 38 ketch. I didn't know a ketch from two sticks in the ground, but the die was cast. Call it Divine Intervention if you will.

So that was the beginning of my adventures.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Also, I wonder if the rise of the feminism has quite a bit to do with it. In the 1950's our family had a "cabin" (actually we still have it) in the deep dark woods of the Sunshine Coast here in BC. My father was a teacher so we had summers off. He'd pack up the family at the end of June and we'd move to the cabin - which had been built of vertical logs in the 1920's. Mom was a stay-at-home "homemaker" - and she continued in that role at the cabin. Unfortunately for her, she had none of the modern conveniences there that she had at our house in North Vancouver: electricity, indoor plumbing, a refrigerator, a wringer washing machine and a sawdust stove.

At the cabin we had none of those. We had kerosene lamps, a shallow well out back with a bucket handy, a wood stove, [....]

My grandmother was born in 1905 in the hills of Kentucky. An only child, her father died shortly after she was born leaving her and her mother in poverty. She nonetheless attended college and then medical school, practicing briefly before her own children were born and again after the youngest was in high school in the 1960s. Her husband (my grandfather) was also a physician.


My family, too, had a cabin built of logs in the 1920s. At the time of its construction it lacked the modern conveniences you describe; although there was no well there was a system that collected rainwater in a cistern, and a hand pump in the kitchen. Drinking water had to be carried in. They usually spent around 4 weeks a year there, a spring fishing trip, a summer berry-picking trip, and a fall hunting trip. In 1952 at the height of the polio epidemic my grandmother and her children spent the summer at the cabin for the safety of the family while my grandfather worked at the hospital and at his clinic. That was shortly after REA came through so there was a fridge and electric lights but still no plumbing.


I don't know whether she was a feminist or not. Staying at the cabin was work and while it was divided more or less along gender lines it would take a large stretch of the imagination to conclude that women did the majority of the work there, except for the summer of '52 when the women were the only ones there. Otherwise the men cut, split, and carried firewood, took care of the boats and outdoor maintenance, did some of the cooking, ashed the stoves, ran errands. I recall stories of one of the men in the family having a habit of reciting poetry from memory while mopping the floor.


But I do know that I am going to challenge the idea that feminism has anything to do with the decline of adventure.


There is a well-documented societal move away from overnight recreation. There is also a well-documented societal change in minimal expectations of accommodation and loss of critical skills. We need not look beyond those trends.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Got news for you, Thomm: "it" wasn't a "thing" back in the day either! I got into sailing in the late 60s, in an area where sailing was relatively well represented (SF bay area) and most of my friends and acquaintances thought I was balmy. A few years later when we spent a month on board our Catalina 22 cruising the Canadian Gulf Islands they thought we (whole family) were out of our minds and likely to die forthwith. A few more years passed and we set out to sail our then boat, a Yankee 30, to Hawaii they threw a farewell party that was similar to a wake... they thought we were truly goners.

I suppose that by then we were no longer "young folks", but many of our friends and co-workers still were and very few sailed at all and zero did so offshore. My point here is that even back then, sailing offshore was attractive to a very small subgroup of a small group of sailors who were a small subgroup of American society... and I think that is still true today.

Here in Australia there are a fair number of youngsters who are into sailing, and some of them are into cruising, with an eye to going offshore someday... and I bet that some will succeed in doing so. As a side note, there are even some who are building their own boats... in timber! Wonderful to see!

Jim

I guess I'm going by my experiences growing up between the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Ocean.

I and most all my friends had boats. I used to go fishing with the man whose grass I cut.

We fished the inlets on Seaside for flounder which were real "Doormat" size back in the late 1960's. I was 10 or so when I would fish with him.

As a teen I went with friends etc., etc., and bought my own boat at 16 years old.

Skipping ahead a few years after I got married at a young age, we had no money so I started reading and many of the books were on sailing. (Magellan etc.)

These included the Dove and Return of the Dove which were Robin Lee Grahams books.

Later I was land locked in Memphis and still remember the scene on TV on 1983 when Australia won the America's Cup.

Since I worked late shift in 1987, I was able to watch the full Cup Series from picking the American Representative through the America's Cup itself.

Sometimes races would still be on at 3 am so I taped some of them.

Anyway, that was the final straw, so I was thinking sailboat (and racing) after that until I finally got one.

In the late 70's when we were headed to Yuma, AZ, I saw 30 or so Hobie 16's in a row sailing along the lower bay on the Virginia Beach side of the bridge so I wanted one of those ever since.

The America's Cup and the Hobie Cats sent me toward sailboats plus watermen on the Bay used Skipjacks for years before they switch to outboards etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FAkIEcLZtA

Plus, there were quite a few sailboats around Morehead City, and we'd see those when out on my boat. This in the mid 70's when I was stationed there.

For me and my friends, we have been on, owned, or around boats since we were very young around 7 years old or so.

Today you just don't see that as much especially with sailing.

There are a few folks/sailors at our marina that are age 30 or so, but most are 50 years old and older.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wholybee

It doesn't matter that most don't. Most Boomers don't care about sailing either. Plenty enough younger people do.

I think we have one boat that races that is made of folks in their 30's here.

Most of the sailors though are quite a bit older maybe around 50 and up.

I was sailing and racing in my 30's and most of the other racer sailors were of a similar age.

Now they are all old in that (Beach Cat) World I used to race in along the Gulf Coast.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It used to be, the best way to get an anchorage to yourself, was to go to a place without cell coverage. No cell, no Internet. Not anymore...

Damn you, Starlink .

Actually, I don't buy the theory that this is going to open the door to an increase in young people cruising. Perhaps for a small number, but this doesn't change the underlying financial and security basics which make cruising as we know it, a risk too far.

Right, it's too expensive for most young (and old) to own especially the boating price.

The rates/pricing I saw to start was $2500 for the equipment and $250/month for the service.

It would be nice to have though especially if sailing offshore.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

I tend to agree with both of you, but, (IMHO,) it more pertains to "city dwellers", those from more rural areas seem more able to fix things, (or rebuild the engine on a tractor).
The city boy says; "Change a tire on a car"? come-on now, that's for people who don't have a degree and have dirty fingernails.
A recent survey I read claims that over 50% of parents are still supporting their adult children to some extent.
Insurance? yeah, I wonder how many of those who traveled the Oregon Trail had "wagon insurance", (or life insurance).
The boats themselves?
Fiberglass has allowed several things, three of which are;
1, It has made possible the construction of boats to take place faster than marinas to put them in.
2, It has allowed more people to have a boat.
3, It has over time devolved into the mass production of sameness and ugliness, (quite like vehicles).

Some of the reason the farm boys can still repair and rebuild is because there is no money in many of those places anymore.

When I go home which is in a rural area, many of the vehicles are 1980's and 1990's vintage.

My friends and I all worked on our cars back in the day because they broke down a lot. By the 1990's though most cars would easily go 100,000 miles before needing work so kids didn't need to learn to work on them.'

My first car was a 1959 Chevrolet Belair at 15 years old, 2nd at 16 was a 1966 Chevrolet Impala. Both needed work at times.

I had 2 more cars by the time I was 18.

The tractor I drove was an old Oliver, but today on my cousin's farm they have very reliable Big John Deere Tractors.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Right, it's too expensive for most young (and old) to own especially the boating price.

The rates/pricing I saw to start was $2500 for the equipment and $250/month for the service.

It would be nice to have though especially if sailing offshore.

Prices start at $599 for the equipment (cheaper than an Iridium Go) and $150 per month + $2 per GB while offshore or out of your region. (comparable to Iridium Go! ) You do not need the maritime package to use it offshore. The standard dish works, and you can add the priority data that works offshore a la cart at $2 per GB instead of a plan that is $100 more for 50GB.

It is becoming really common for offshore boats to have. If you can even do a part time low wage job with it, it pays for itself really quickly.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I think we have one boat that races that is made of folks in their 30's here.

Most of the sailors though are quite a bit older maybe around 50 and up.

I was sailing and racing in my 30's and most of the other racer sailors were of a similar age.

Now they are all old in that (Beach Cat) World I used to race in along the Gulf Coast.

Racers of all ages here. Yacht clubs have sailing classes with young kids on optimists and lasers etc. There is a Facebook group of mostly young (20's-30's but a few up to 50's) sailors in the area that get together for raftups monthly, and have a large summer party with 50 boats (almost all younger sailors) that raft together.

Get on the cruising Facebook groups, and they are filled with twenty somethings looking for boats to sail on. Worldwide, there are TONS of kids sailing.

Maybe it's just that sailing in San Francisco is just that much better than the Chesapeake? (just kidding )

[rslifkin]

Barriers to entry for local sailing definitely vary regionally. There's plenty of low budget sailing here on the Great Lakes. Compared to many places, slip prices are lower, there's less competition for waterfront property, and there are tons of cheap old boats around for people to get started with (as boats tend to last a long time when only used 5 - 7 months out of the year and in fresh water).

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Prices start at $599 for the equipment (cheaper than an Iridium Go) and $150 per month + $2 per GB while offshore or out of your region. (comparable to Iridium Go! ) You do not need the maritime package to use it offshore. The standard dish works, and you can add the priority data that works offshore a la cart at $2 per GB instead of a plan that is $100 more for 50GB.

It is becoming really common for offshore boats to have. If you can even do a part time low wage job with it, it pays for itself really quickly.

Good to know.

I was going to go with InReach when I retire but having a true internet connection might be better.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Good to know.

I was going to go with InReach when I retire but having a true internet connection might be better.

You really need both. Starlink doesn't work when the power goes out, or if a storm damages the dish, and you can't take it in a life raft. The InReach is an emergency comms device. Starlink is not.

If you don't need Internet for income and you can only choose one, then the inreach is a more critical safety need. And a whole lot cheaper service.