Starlink Internet

[Wpg3ut]

Could anyone comment on the use of Starlink for internet service while at sea and how well it does or doesn't work?
I have seen online where the fee for mariners is $1000/month, is that accurate? There is also a roaming category where the fee is $200/month. Why is there such an upcharge for mariners?

[wholybee]

We can only guess at upcharges for mariners. One guess is that providing service over oceans is more expensive, requiring the use of laser links, negotiating for authorization in multiple countries, etc. Note that $1000 per month is 1/10th of the cost of similar service from other providers.

Another is simply that the market will pay for it, already being 1/10th the cost of competing products, why should they charge any less than $1000 month?

For now, the roam option works everywhere. But Starlink has created a history of raising prices, and adding restrictions that were not there before. So, it is not a stretch to think that they might without notice block the use of roam offshore and require the maritime version.

[Orin]

I have a commercial client using Starlink.
For his connection which is a few hundred people using Wi-Fi on a ferry - it’s super reliable and fast. Costs him $5k a month tho.

FCC compliance for a moving platform adds to the cost.

Lack of good competition adds to the cost.

No idea what their cheaper plans are for non-commercial use… but I imagine reliability and speed will not be disappointing.

[Wpg3ut]

Thanks Warren! So are you suggesting there literally are some that pay $10K/month for internet access? That can't be true, right?
And the roam service package from Starlink could work depending on location?
IYO, what do most do? Forego Internet while at sea?

[Orin]

In this case yes. He takes on hundreds of passengers and some of them pay a few bucks for internet. He does this a bunch so the service pays for itself and then some. Similar to the way airlines operate. Paying $10 for in flight Wi-Fi when there are 400 people on the flight can go a long way in covering the costs.

There are a lot of solutions for connectivity at sea for cruising yachts. Most are rudimentary and slow from my understanding. I can’t really speak much about the yacht world but even in the commercial world we have a great number of clients who simply forgo internet if they’re out of cell range.

I plan on using some fancy antennas to extend the range of my cell service and connection to local Wi-Fi but beyond that I cannot say what most do.

There are a lot of other people on this forum that can speak better to that. Many who already have if you’re inclined to read through old posts about it.

[wholybee]

Until Starlink came out, yes, almost everyone would forgo Internet at sea. There are some devices like the Iridium Go that allow text only email, but not really anything else. And that is all most did, send and receive email for basic weather and emergency communications. Those that really do need internet, did (and some still do) spend many thousands of dollars per month. Up to and exceeding 10k per month if you need speeds similar to Starlink. The ability for an average person to "work from home" while cruising Internationally on a boat is very new, less than a year that has been possible.

Right now, roam *seems* to work everywhere. Officially, it only works on land, and using at sea is a violation of TOS. Your guess is as good as mine if that will continue or if Starlink will shut that down. My guess, fwiw, is that they will shut it down.

[Cheyne]

I’m not holding my breath on geo fencing. They still route everyone, at least in the US, through the Atlanta data center which makes it look like you are there. My phone with VPN and a fake GPS still blocks me from watching YouTubeTV in the Bahamas. AppleTV on my Starlink allows me to watch it. I also never get asked about my viewing area.

[fxykty]

There’s a lot of FUD out there regarding Starlink and much of it is self-inflicted as their media and support communications are pretty poor. Currently they don’t seem to be enforcing their terms of service for the Roam (previously RV) product: in motion use at sailboat speeds works just fine and for quite a way offshore. There’s been reports that it works all the way across the Atlantic, and in our case we’re currently 180 nautical miles away from the nearest land south of Australia and still getting full speed connectivity.

We activated our old Iridium GO! for the passage just in case our Starlink stopped working, but so far so good.

Later this year we’ll be heading from Australia to Indonesia. It will be interesting to see how long our Roam service continues working.

[mochifanta]

Straight from their website. There offering continues to evolve. This is for personal use, not commercial.

https://www.starlink.com/roam

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by Wpg3ut

Thanks Warren! So are you suggesting there literally are some that pay $10K/month for internet access? That can't be true, right?

There are, but they’re not your typical cruising yacht.
They’re cruise ships, super yachts, ferries (as described above) and so on.

Can you imagine Bill Gates worrying about $10K a month when he goes offshore?

[Orin]

Originally Posted by mochifanta

Straight from their website. There offering continues to evolve. This is for personal use, not commercial.

https://www.starlink.com/roam

Actually $2,500+200/mo seems reasonable considering what I pay for my phone bill now. If it enables me to work “from home 90% of the time on the ocean” opens up a lot of opportunity.

If you go to the maritime section it appears that’s mostly for what we do at the yard. The system we’re currently installing has dual receivers that seamlessly work together and all that. It’s a lot more than you’d even consider for a private boat. Plus these boats are moving in the 25 knot range thru open ocean.

It’s likely that they sort of intended yachties to steer towards roam without saying it outright.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by mochifanta

Straight from their website. There offering continues to evolve. This is for personal use, not commercial.

https://www.starlink.com/roam

Only for land use:
https://support.starlink.com/?topic=...7-d4d281b39d8f

There is nothing on the Starlink site that says the expensive maritime package is for commercial use while the Roam is the personal version. That is just something people have assumed and told each other to justify why the RV(and now ROAM) service will work in perpetuity. The maritime version is for offshore maritime use, and the Roam version is for use on land.

[Orin]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Only for land use:
https://support.starlink.com/?topic=...7-d4d281b39d8f

There is nothing on the Starlink site that says the expensive maritime package is for commercial use while the Roam is the personal version. That is just something people have assumed and told each other to justify why the RV(and now ROAM) service will work in perpetuity. The maritime version is for offshore maritime use, and the Roam version is for use on land.

I suppose it costs a lot more per user to develop coverage in the middle of the pacific. Even if they made roam a “near shore” option. It would be preferable to buying a new phone plan in every country you stop in.

There may be other reasons why they don’t brand roam for marine use as well like lack of proper materials - I know the setup cost for our marine units was more like $10k. The marine units may also need to move more frequently and be designed around that. Being that this engineering cost is spread between fewer users also would increase cost.

[mochifanta]

Originally Posted by Orin

I suppose it costs a lot more per user to develop coverage in the middle of the pacific. Even if they made roam a “near shore” option. It would be preferable to buying a new phone plan in every country you stop in.

There may be other reasons why they don’t brand roam for marine use as well like lack of proper materials - I know the setup cost for our marine units was more like $10k. The marine units may also need to move more frequently and be designed around that. Being that this engineering cost is spread between fewer users also would increase cost.

The Satellites are not geostationary. They circle the earth in bands, so eventually it will blanket the earth. Issue in remote locations is lack of ground stations, but given the limited number of people probably won’t matter, especially once the V2 satellites can talk to each other with lasers.

Funny you mention phones, that is the end game in my mind, Starlink mobile service. Everything everywhere all at once.

I will be fantastic until AI takes over the world. :-)

[mochifanta]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Only for land use:

https://support.starlink.com/?topic=...7-d4d281b39d8f



There is nothing on the Starlink site that says the expensive maritime package is for commercial use while the Roam is the personal version. That is just something people have assumed and told each other to justify why the RV(and now ROAM) service will work in perpetuity. The maritime version is for offshore maritime use, and the Roam version is for use on land.

Nothing lasts forever, but if you need it or want it then it is the best thing going for the moment.