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Old 22-11-2016, 11:37   #91
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

I though the OP said galley scraps. I took that as organic matter which will get eaten or decompose. What is the problem. Given tides and currents I doubt there is a chance of making fish dependent as with feeding some mammals and humans.

Sorry, I couldn't leave out the political view.
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Old 22-11-2016, 11:40   #92
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
...The "my little bit" solution does all of squat but it's easier to berate someone for throwing a chicken bone in the water than to rebuild the local waste water treatment plant. ... people get just get silly spending effort fixing a non-issue because they want to be seen as eco-friendly not because it does a darn thing to fix a problem.
I get what you’re saying Val, and you’re right in some cases, but reality is more nuanced. We’ve (meaning our society) sometimes wastes ridiculous resources chasing the last ppm or ppb concentration of a pollutant. We get those foolish slogans about “no amount of pollution is acceptable!” or “any pollution is too much!!” This flies in the face of good science, and at least some people’s common sense.

That said, there are situations where everyone’s small contribution DOES lead to a big problem. One person pooping in an enclosed harbour makes no real difference. But 10, 100, 1000 … all doing the same creates an environmental problem.

Most of our planet’s environmental crisis have begun with the false notion that the resource is endless (forests, fish, water, etc…), or that my little garbage means nothing. "Nothing I do can possibly affect something so large…”. This is usually true when one person does it. But again, when the everyone does it, it becomes a problem.

This is why it is reasonable to dump organics in areas of good flow with small existing nutrient loads. But in areas where loads are concentrated, it makes perfect sense to not add to the problem.
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Old 22-11-2016, 11:48   #93
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

I feel that politicking the environment was one of the worst things Al Gore did. Moron ruined it for legitimate environmental concerns in the US.


Anyway - I stand by my response in the first reply. U think anyone who understands what being neighborly means will know where to dump and where not to dump.

If you're the type who dumps everywhere and anywhere, I hope for your sake you don't get busted in some countries that take things more seriously. Maybe go to India where a billion people have the attitude that the river and sewer is nature's waste disposal system.

Great crabs to he had there - feeding on human corpse floating down the river and garbage. Too bad dioxin also floes down the same river.
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Old 22-11-2016, 12:31   #94
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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I feel that politicking the environment was one of the worst things Al Gore did. Moron ruined it for legitimate environmental concerns in the US. ..................
Maybe a more pivotal point for "politicking the environment" in the USA and for cruisers was the Clean Water Act of 1972 under the Nixon administration. This has far more impact upon cruising in the US than anything promoted by Al Gore. Of course, that was a good move for "legitimate environmental concerns".
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Old 22-11-2016, 12:37   #95
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

I guess I remember it differently. Nixon did the popular thing in office - there was more immediate pollution impact on health and safety.

Gore ruined it politically in the sense that he made it an issue after losing office, turned it into a celebrity thing while doing nothing to reduce his own impact. Also made the conversation with moderate and Republicans a lot harder.

Bush 2 policies has reduced US emissions more than Kyoto proposed and now the celebrity movement is targeting fracking without looking at good and badpractices .
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Old 22-11-2016, 12:40   #96
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

I have no idea how this got to Al Gore. Galley scraps to Gore is a stretch.
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Old 22-11-2016, 12:43   #97
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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I have no idea how this got to Al Gore. Galley scraps to Gore is a stretch.
The drift happened like orange peels. First overboard then slowly to attitude then to politics.
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Old 22-11-2016, 13:09   #98
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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I have no idea how this got to Al Gore. Galley scraps to Gore is a stretch.
Yeah, thanks for this. We only accept a little political discussion when in stays on track and remains related to cruising. I don't want to contribute to a veer into the abyss!
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Old 22-11-2016, 13:15   #99
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Orange oil and it's main ingredient d-limonene are listed as a category 1 aquatic risk at about 1 gm/L (1 ppm). One large orange peel might contain 4-5 gms of orange oil which would "pollute" about 4-5000 L (about 1000 gallons) of water.
.
I think you need to reconsider those figures.

1 gm/L <> 1ppm

The best commercial extraction methods only get about a 1% yield of orange oil from orange skin (note, that is the skin - the pith contains almost no orange oil). You'd need one heck of a lot of oranges to get 4-5gm of oil!

And even if you did get enough peels in the water, orange oil (d-limonene) is highly volatile.
"d-Limonene is only somewhat soluble in water (13.8 mg/L) and has an estimated octanol/water partition coefficient of 4.2. d-Limonene is expected to rapidly volatilize from water to the atmosphere, with an estimated half-life for volatilization from a model river of 3.4 hr"

It's a total non-issue!
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Old 22-11-2016, 14:13   #100
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I think you need to reconsider those figures.

1 gm/L <> 1ppm

The best commercial extraction methods only get about a 1% yield of orange oil from orange skin (note, that is the skin - the pith contains almost no orange oil). You'd need one heck of a lot of oranges to get 4-5gm of oil!

And even if you did get enough peels in the water, orange oil (d-limonene) is highly volatile.
"d-Limonene is only somewhat soluble in water (13.8 mg/L) and has an estimated octanol/water partition coefficient of 4.2. d-Limonene is expected to rapidly volatilize from water to the atmosphere, with an estimated half-life for volatilization from a model river of 3.4 hr"

It's a total non-issue!
Bet Al Gore didnt know that!
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Old 22-11-2016, 14:15   #101
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I think you need to reconsider those figures.

1 gm/L <> 1ppm

The best commercial extraction methods only get about a 1% yield of orange oil from orange skin (note, that is the skin - the pith contains almost no orange oil). You'd need one heck of a lot of oranges to get 4-5gm of oil!

And even if you did get enough peels in the water, orange oil (d-limonene) is highly volatile.
"d-Limonene is only somewhat soluble in water (13.8 mg/L) and has an estimated octanol/water partition coefficient of 4.2. d-Limonene is expected to rapidly volatilize from water to the atmosphere, with an estimated half-life for volatilization from a model river of 3.4 hr"

It's a total non-issue!
The whole discussion of orange peels, and table scraps sounds sophomoric. I'm sure there are real pollution issues of more importance.
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Old 22-11-2016, 14:20   #102
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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The whole discussion of orange peels, and table scraps sounds sophomoric. I'm sure there are real pollution issues of more importance.
I agree,- fruit has been falling from the trees for a long time! Way before Adam and Eve took a bite!
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Old 22-11-2016, 14:54   #103
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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I agree,- fruit has been falling from the trees for a long time! Way before Adam and Eve took a bite!
True, but the point of the original question is about unintended consequences. There is nothing sophomoric in perusing a question to avoid unintended consequences. Cruisers will bring many things to remote shores that are not part of the natural environment. To assume that one's actions are always benign very short sighted. If the answer ends up being simple, great! But not asking the questions might have impacts that you and I haven't imagined.

That comment is not directed at you Hudson Force but inspired by your comments.
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Old 22-11-2016, 15:11   #104
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I think you need to reconsider those figures.

1 gm/L <> 1ppm

The best commercial extraction methods only get about a 1% yield of orange oil from orange skin (note, that is the skin - the pith contains almost no orange oil). You'd need one heck of a lot of oranges to get 4-5gm of oil!

And even if you did get enough peels in the water, orange oil (d-limonene) is highly volatile.
"d-Limonene is only somewhat soluble in water (13.8 mg/L) and has an estimated octanol/water partition coefficient of 4.2. d-Limonene is expected to rapidly volatilize from water to the atmosphere, with an estimated half-life for volatilization from a model river of 3.4 hr"

It's a total non-issue!
Ah Stu. You're too late to be the first to point out my typo. Guess I started too early in the am and typed gm/L when I meant to type mg/L which is 1 ppm on a wt/wt basis.

And yes, we do agree that the quantity of d-limonene in orange peels, even a bushel of orange peels, is insignificant in the ocean.
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Old 22-11-2016, 15:13   #105
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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True, but the point of the original question is about unintended consequences. There is nothing sophomoric in perusing a question to avoid unintended consequences. Cruisers will bring many things to remote shores that are not part of the natural environment. To assume that one's actions are always benign very short sighted. If the answer ends up being simple, great! But not asking the questions might have impacts that you and I haven't imagined.

That comment is not directed at you Hudson Force but inspired by your comments.
I’ve also appreciated this thread. OK, maybe not the silly political tangent, but the orange peel question got me to question my assumption (that citrus in water is OK), and go look up the info. I also appreciate the more detailed analysis provided by Stu, Belize and Skip.

I think Hudson, Skip (and others) have it right. Organics over the side in places with good flow where nutrient loads are not an issue, and where it's not an aesthetic problem. Otherwise, hang on to them.

But coffee always goes over the side .
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