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Old 22-11-2016, 05:12   #76
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Feeding fish for fishing, IMO legal, and if done regularly while at anchor for a long time (in an appropriate venue), has the advatage of building up your own little "aquaculture" operation...dinner is waiting to be caught right under the boat.

On galley up cats, the galley sink drain normally exits under the bridge deck and fish tend to hang out there waiting for scraps from washing dishes. They then dart out to catch the occassional scraps tossed off the stern...good conditiong for a hook up.
We were walking along the docks in the early morning, where all the cats were, and we got a real education about marina wildlife watching hundreds of fish thrashing about the boats. It was easy to see which boats occupants were awake! There were so many fish around one boat it looked like they were trying to break in!
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Old 22-11-2016, 05:58   #77
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

Coffee grounds? Why wouldn't they go straight into the ocean? They are just ground up roasted coffee beans! Fish need caffeine too ya know.
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Old 22-11-2016, 06:44   #78
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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I really hate using paper as a "disposable" item. Especially from virgin tree sources (most us paper goods).
If it makes you feel any better, the great majority of the trees used to make paper are from commercially grown trees like the southern pine or second growth, commercially managed natural forests. Globally less than 10% of the paper produced comes from virgin or old growth forests.

On the other hand, paper production is one of the nastier industries, producing a lot of air and water pollution.
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Old 22-11-2016, 07:07   #79
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Originally Posted by Pat Rains View Post
Citrus peelings (oranges, limes, lemons, grapefruit) don't biodegrade in salt water. They are toxic to most fish and marine wildlife. The citrus peels float forever, end up on some pristine beach where they become almost as problematic as plastic litter or Styrofoam peanuts. Citrus garbage is one of the organic things we don't toss overboard - even on high seas.
Orange peels contain orange oil which is primarily a mix of orange terpenes, 90-95% of that is d-limonene. These are not toxic per se but act as a solvent to cut oils, greases, etc. In fact, these oils are the source for food grade orange flavoring used in candy, baking, etc.

In humans orange oil can remove the natural, protective oils in the skin causing drying and in about 3% of people, repeated use can result in skin sensitization causing dermatitis.

Orange oil and it's main ingredient d-limonene are listed as a category 1 aquatic risk at about 1 gm/L (1 ppm). One large orange peel might contain 4-5 gms of orange oil which would "pollute" about 4-5000 L (about 1000 gallons) of water. For reference a cruising sailboat might displace several thousand gallons. Bottom line, the orange oils will be so diluted in the ocean as to be undetectable, much less hazardous. These oils will also biodegrade over time leaving no long term bio accumulation.

As far as the peels never biodegrade in salt water, also not the case. It may take a few months but even large pieces will degrade. In my compost bin at home within weeks orange peels are completely gone.

All that being said, as I and many others have said, disposal of organic wastes should take the local situation into account and be done responsibly.
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Old 22-11-2016, 07:25   #80
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

We only toss over things like lobster shells, clam shells and meat bones. The rest goes into the trash bin and is disposed of *in town*. We separate recycle items.
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Old 22-11-2016, 07:32   #81
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Often a great idea, but be aware of your local environment. If your in a nutrient rich area where occasional algae blooms deplete oxygen and cause fish kills; then, keep your organic wastes out of the water.

I agree with Cadence for most locations, but not all.
Unless your are anchored in a small swimming pool, you realistically can't dump enough nutrients into a harbor to have an impact.
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Old 22-11-2016, 07:51   #82
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Orange oil and it's main ingredient d-limonene are listed as a category 1 aquatic risk at about 1 gm/L (1 ppm). One large orange peel might contain 4-5 gms of orange oil which would "pollute" about 4-5000 L (about 1000 gallons) of water. For reference a cruising sailboat might displace several thousand gallons. Bottom line, the orange oils will be so diluted in the ocean as to be undetectable, much less hazardous. These oils will also biodegrade over time leaving no long term bio accumulation.
Several issues with your calculations but the correct conclusion.
- 1gm/L is closer to 1000ppm (orange oil is not exactly the same density as water, so it will be slightly different)
- An entire orange peel may weigh 4-5gms but the oil only makes up a small percentage of the weight, so you are way over estimating the amount of oil available.
- A small bay, a square kilometer in area and average depth 10m, will hold 10,000,000 cubic meters of water. To reach 1ppm, would require 10 cubic meters of orange oil. That's around 2600 gallons of oil to reach harmless levels assuming no flushing action which would quickly disperse even that much.

Throwing an orange peel into the water will not turn the bay into a toxic stew. It may look bad and you may be ostracized for it but there is no impact on the ecosystem.
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Old 22-11-2016, 08:59   #83
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Several issues with your calculations but the correct conclusion.
- 1gm/L is closer to 1000ppm (orange oil is not exactly the same density as water, so it will be slightly different)
- An entire orange peel may weigh 4-5gms but the oil only makes up a small percentage of the weight, so you are way over estimating the amount of oil available.
- A small bay, a square kilometer in area and average depth 10m, will hold 10,000,000 cubic meters of water. To reach 1ppm, would require 10 cubic meters of orange oil. That's around 2600 gallons of oil to reach harmless levels assuming no flushing action which would quickly disperse even that much.

Throwing an orange peel into the water will not turn the bay into a toxic stew. It may look bad and you may be ostracized for it but there is no impact on the ecosystem.
Oops. Your calculation is correct, my typing was wrong. Should have been 1 mg/L instead of 1 gm/L. 1 mg/L is, if my brain is now working correctly, 1 ppm.

Regarding how much oil in an orange peel, that was a bit of data I did not know so looked up something on the net which in retrospect does seem to be a pretty high yield of oil from a peel. I'll have to ask my supplier (I sell this stuff, want to buy a few 55 gallon drums or a tank truck of orange oil?) what the correct yield should be.
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Old 22-11-2016, 09:22   #84
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pirate Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

Food everywhere..
Peelings in the rubbish in marinas/anchorage.. over the side at sea.
Cans are binned in marinas/anchorage.. or bottoms punctured to ensure they sink at sea.. jars/bottles also filled and sunk.. lid in rubbish.
Cardboard, paper, plastic flattened and stored at sea.. end up in the bin ashore regardless..
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Old 22-11-2016, 09:52   #85
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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The whole orange peel thing had me scratching my head. Of course it will bio-degrade. If it can rot, it can degrade in the environment. Maybe it won’t be eaten by gulls, but it certainly will be eaten by micro-critters.

Anyway, according to the Pocket Guide to Marine Debris (published by The Ocean Conservancy), orange and banana peels take two to five weeks “till it’s gone”, which I assume means fully decompose. Interestingly, they say an apple core takes two months to decompose, and a cigarette filter takes one to five years!

Looking at debris collected from coastal beaches over a five year period (1996 - 2000), no organics make it into the top 10 list. In fact the number one item collected is cigarettes/cigarette filters (22%), followed by bags at 13%.
My guess would be the cigarette filters won't decompose. Come apart yes decompose?
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Old 22-11-2016, 10:05   #86
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Unless your are anchored in a small swimming pool, you realistically can't dump enough nutrients into a harbor to have an impact.
Every shore side guy that has fertilizer run-off from his lawn; everyone who dumps their holding tank; everyone that dumps their garbage in the small harbors or estuaries can say this same thing, "My little bit doesn't count for enough to make a difference."

Sure, it's true, the greatest problems are with the big city spills and over-runs, but it all adds up in those areas that are at risk.

I'm all for tossing out some organics in the offshore or good tidal flushing areas, but not in nutrient sensitive areas.
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Old 22-11-2016, 10:19   #87
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

Most cigarette filters are cellulose acetate, a plastic. This does not biodegrade, but breaks down into smaller and smaller pieces, called microplastics. There are a lot of these in our environment. This last is a great understatement.
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Old 22-11-2016, 10:48   #88
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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Every shore side guy that has fertilizer run-off from his lawn; everyone who dumps their holding tank; everyone that dumps their garbage in the small harbors or estuaries can say this same thing, "My little bit doesn't count for enough to make a difference."

Sure, it's true, the greatest problems are with the big city spills and over-runs, but it all adds up in those areas that are at risk.

I'm all for tossing out some organics in the offshore or good tidal flushing areas, but not in nutrient sensitive areas.
This is the problem with the eco movement. Common sense goes out the window and slogans have taken over.

The "my little bit" solution does all of squat but it's easier to berate someone for throwing a chicken bone in the water than to rebuild the local waste water treatment plant.

Feel free to give us a nutrient sensitive area and let's go thru the numbers to see how much benefit we can get from "my little bit".

PS: I don't mean this as an attack on you personally. It's just frustrating how insidious the repeated slogans are against using common sense. I don't think we should dump all waste over the side in a busy harbor or dump the holding tanks 100yds off a swimming beach but people get just get silly spending effort fixing a non-issue because they want to be seen as eco-friendly not because it does a darn thing to fix a problem.
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Old 22-11-2016, 10:54   #89
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

The amount of vegetable waste that goes overboard from yachts is but a drop in the water compared with the amount of vegetable matter that comes down storm water drains, creeks and rivers.... and how long do you you reckon it takes a teak log to bio-degrade?.... answer me that...
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Old 22-11-2016, 11:23   #90
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Re: Dealing with galley scraps at anchor?

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This is the problem with the eco movement. Common sense goes out the window and slogans have taken over.

The "my little bit" solution does all of squat but it's easier to berate someone for throwing a chicken bone in the water than to rebuild the local waste water treatment plant.

Feel free to give us a nutrient sensitive area and let's go thru the numbers to see how much benefit we can get from "my little bit".

PS: I don't mean this as an attack on you personally. It's just frustrating how insidious the repeated slogans are against using common sense. I don't think we should dump all waste over the side in a busy harbor or dump the holding tanks 100yds off a swimming beach but people get just get silly spending effort fixing a non-issue because they want to be seen as eco-friendly not because it does a darn thing to fix a problem.
I might be in greater agreement with you than you think, as I recognized in my post that the most significant problems are the metropolitan management systems.

I have no tired "eco movement" slogans to share, but only the experience of a background studying and teaching environmental sciences and microbiology.

I doubt if you're a man that tosses an empty beer can in the park and says my one bit of trash doesn't count.

I think we agree more than you let on.
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