Almost that time - hurricane season

[pas63]

I'm going to head to Daytona and Palm Bay area the end of April. Looking ahead to hurricane season. I've ridden out 4-5 in Annapolis MD, but I think they are a bit more intense in FL. Right now I plan to head back to N FL, St Augustine or Jax. After hurricane season I'd like to take off with and make it below, as such I'd prefer not to head north if possible. This leads to the question of "hurricane proof" marinas in the central/southern Atlantic coast of FL. I know nothing is hurricane proof as evident the damage Ian, Hugo, Katrina etc unloaded. Thoughts from FL hurricane veterans?

[S/V Illusion]

Most hurricanes aren’t very wide in terms of damaging winds. I’m not particularly a fan of the “dart board” approach to planning where to move.

[sailingunity]

It just depends on the storm and the landfall location. For some reason hurricanes tend not to land in the North FL area very much. The problem is you don't know exactly where a hurricane will make landfall until 1-2 days out, which doesn't give you much time to move very far if you're not in a well protected spot. We've weathered 4 hurricanes in FL.

- Irma while we were in Green Cove Springs, not a direct hit.
- Dorian while we were in Green Cove Springs, passed about 60 miles offshore.
- Ian while we were in Titusville, not a direct hit.
- Nicole while in Vero beach on a mooring, direct hit but only a category 1.

Green Cove Springs is supposed to be a famous hurricane hole, but most of the the marina slips are side tie only which makes you vulnerable to dock rash when the storm surge comes in (the docks are old military docks, made of concrete). Also the marina is wide open to the river, with something like 2 miles of fetch, giving plenty of room for the winds to pick up. They have a boat yard, but be prepared to pay double when a named storm is on the way.

Titusville is pretty good, as the marina is built in a basin, so while the winds can pick up a good bit coming across the lagoon, there's not much fetch (but the boats at B and C dock ends got beat up). They also have a boat yard that can haul you out before a storm. DON'T stay on a mooring there, 2 boats parted (including ours) a week before the storm in relatively calm conditions, during Ian I think 5 or 6 broke and washed up on the rocks.

I haven't been to Halifax Harbor marina in Daytona, but that looks to be a very well protected and well built marina for hurricanes. I imagine the buildings nearby have some slowing effect on the wind.

Vero beach was nice in a way because the moorings make sure you're always pointed into the wind, for the most part. I think they are all pretty new as well, no boats were lost.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by pas63

I'm going to head to Daytona and Palm Bay area the end of April. Looking ahead to hurricane season. I've ridden out 4-5 in Annapolis MD, but I think they are a bit more intense in FL. Right now I plan to head back to N FL, St Augustine or Jax. After hurricane season I'd like to take off with and make it below, as such I'd prefer not to head north if possible. This leads to the question of "hurricane proof" marinas in the central/southern Atlantic coast of FL. I know nothing is hurricane proof as evident the damage Ian, Hugo, Katrina etc unloaded. Thoughts from FL hurricane veterans?

I went thru Hurricane Ivan in Pensacola, FL in 2004 and 6-8 other hurricanes while there

Ivan reach 160 knots Cat 5 and came in Pensacola Pass at around 140 knots give or take.

Nothing was safe.

Tornadoes did significant damage also

A grand total of 118 tornadoes were associated with Ivan from Florida to Pennsylvania, which is more than any other tropical system since modern day tornado records have been kept starting in 1950.

It hit in mid September. The later season Hurricanes seem to be the worst. (August, September, October, etc)

[MicHughV]

The J'ville/ St. Augustine area is located on the westerly indentation of the Florida coast, with the result that most past hurricanes have come barreling past. J'ville has only ever been hit by a hurricane once, and that one, Dora, came from the west.

There are several marina's downtown on the St. Johns River that may provide an option for you.
Green Cove Springs further up river is another place. There are several places in GCS that may provide some options.
Just up the coast, a short distance from from J'ville is Brunswick marina....reputedly a hurricane hole.

All these placed tend to fill up quick, so advance reservations is a must.

Several marina's are in the backside of St. Augustine, another option.
As pointed out above, Halifax Harbor in Daytona has a well constructed marina.

Further south, are also options, but the odds of getting hit by a hurricane appear to increase.

I will caveat this by adding, that there is really no such thing as a "hurricane hole"
A cat 5 hurricane will obliterated anything, no matter where you are.

Generally speaking, cat 1-2 hurricanes are doable in most places.
A cat 3, you are throwing the dice.
A cat 4-5 is serious business.

Remember that the eyewall is where the max. winds will be. Even being a mere 100 miles away from the eyewall will make a big difference in wind speeds.
Unfortunately, one also has to contend with tidal surge. Depending on which side of the 'cane you are, this can have a big impact on your chosen location regardless of wind speed.

Some people opt to stay on the boat during a 'cane. Wise ? I don't think so. A lot of things will be flying around, including other boats possibly bashing into you.

It goes without saying to strip the boat bare before leaving it anywhere. If your chosen marina has accessible or slip piles, tie of to these.

Some options for you to consider.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Generally speaking, cat 1-2 hurricanes are doable in most places.

Doable, but I would still seek other accommodations. I endured 2 hurricanes on the boat with 60-70MPH winds, and they are hard. The noise, the movement, you can't relax or sleep. I've stopped doing that, instead I find accommodations ashore and just check on the boat a few times throughout the storm, adjust lines as the wind shifts, etc.

[Hudson Force]

I think one of the best defenses with a hurricane threat is time. If your preparation time is diminished by a need to care for a house, a business, your job or other commitments besides your boat; then, you may do what others choose and simply put extra lines to the dock and leave the outcome to your hope for insurance compensation.

Our priority was always our boat and we were almost always free to use time to our advantage. We usually took a three day window to move to a "safe" location if we were within the potential landfall of a hurricane. With more than a day to travel and a day to prep we could find a place with the following criteria:

1. Inland (risk is always less further from the coast)
2. Little fetch (limiting the potential for wave action)
3. Good Anchorage (a substrate that favors the anchor; shallow enough to keep a rode
to depth ratio favorable with a tidal surge)
4. Limited windage (high surrounding hills, trees or buidlings)
5. Limited potential debris (few loose shanty construction, logs, derelicts)
6. A forgiving shoreline (mud or sand instead of rock or cement bulkhead)
7. Few other anchored boats (those that might not be secure)

We always found the first three essential criteria and at least some of the others. We often stayed with our boat, but sometimes left and stayed ashore. We also sometimes keep our boat at a favorable dock, but we were subject to more damage, although minor.

[Tom Boles]

I have had my boat at Halifax Harbor Marina in Daytona Beach for several years. Part of the reason I went there is that it had the reputation of being the most "hurricane proof".....if they exist at all...marina in Florida. No hurricanes came close until last year when we had 2 skim by. While there was widespread flooding and condo damage, my boat and 98% of the others had no damage. The only ones that had a problem were those that did not remove or secure their canvas, and one boat that sunk due to no double lines and questionable, if any, storm preparation.

I am very happy there.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...
Remember that the eyewall is where the max. winds will be. Even being a mere 100 miles away from the eyewall will make a big difference in wind speeds.
Unfortunately, one also has to contend with tidal surge. Depending on which side of the 'cane you are, this can have a big impact on your chosen location regardless of wind speed....

People focus on the wind speed, with good reason, but the storm surge and flooding is a huge factor in hurricanes.

Hurricane Hazel hit the SC/NC border in October of 1954. It passed over Little River, SC. There are a cluster of huge live oaks that have to be at least a couple of century old that somehow survived that storm. The trees are huge and some of the limbs are larger than the trunks of many trees. They are on high ground so the storm surge would not get them but surprised they survived the winds.

However, the barrier islands from Little River inlet to the Cape Fear river, were under water. Back then, people did not live on those islands full time, and only visited for holidays and weekends. Quite a few people were killed when they went out to the islands before the storm hit. There was no real warning and by the time they knew a storm was heading towards them, there was no way to escape. Today, those islands are home to thousands of full time residents, and tens of thousands of visitors in the summer. Thankfully, people are taking storm warning seriously and getting out when the getting is good.

I have family near Jacksonville, and one of the latest big hurricanes did not hit them but the storm surge pushed into the St John river system was huge and flooded them out. Houses two stories tall had water up to the roof well inland. I would think many docks were under water or floated off their piers in that storm.

Later,
Dan

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by dannc

..........
..................................... I have family near Jacksonville, and one of the latest big hurricanes did not hit them but the storm surge pushed into the St John river system was huge and flooded them out. Houses two stories tall had water up to the roof well inland. I would think many docks were under water or floated off their piers in that storm. Dan

Jacksonville has been my home area since 1972 and where I've managed my boat during a number of hurricane threats. I'm wondering if the "houses two stories tall .....and water up to the roof" could have been with the Black Creek area flooding in Clay County. This would have been from catchment basin flooding and not the storm surge. I was cruising far away from my home port for some events and you may be correct; however, I'm not familiar with this height of storm surge in the St. Johns estuary region. Certainly, you're correct about the docks being covered by water. 'good advice for all to be wary!

[Chotu]

I would say a lot of the common sense stuff in this thread is totally wrong. Lol

My boat was destroyed in Jacksonville. Because it was at a marina. There are no marinas that are good for hurricanes. Actually, I can think of one. But it’s not where you want to be cruising.

The secret to surviving a hurricane is getting to your boat and getting it the hell out of the marina. Getting it as far up a tiny little creek as you possibly can.

I’ve been hit by 3? 4 now?

I think the one that wrecked my boat is called Irma. Then there was another one right after it. All of these hurricanes have been category 3+.

The last one that hit it, Ian, gave us over 100 mile an hour winds at the boat. In the marina. Apparently that was category five actually they have found when it came ashore. I was inland a bit. Not because I enjoyed the marina, but because it was safe.

So the secret to preserving your boat it is not to have it on the edges of Florida. You have to put it in the middle of Florida. In the center of the state. That’s the only protection from hurricanes that will be foolproof.

If you are keeping it on the edges, hopefully you are nearby because you will need to move it deep up a creek, so there is more danger of trees falling on the boat than anything else.

I protected mine through a category 3 direct eye hit doing that.

Just think through it very carefully. Figure out a strategy. But definitely, definitely don’t leave your boat in the marina. That’s how they get destroyed.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I think the one that wrecked my boat is called Irma. Then there was another one right after it. All of these hurricanes have been category 3+.

Irma was a Cat 4 when it made landfall, and was projected to still be a 2 when it passed over Jacksonville, but in reality weakened significantly and was only a tropical storm by the time it got here. Granted, there is still the chance for tornadoes. My boat was damaged by Irma too, but only because of the storm surge, the water rose enough that my boat was no longer protected by the fender boards.

Ian was bad for the west coast, crossed the state from west to east, most of the boats that sunk on the east coast were anchored or moored.

Most creeks that I know of in the Jax area have bridges over them, so it's not possible to sneak a sailboat up them.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Irma was a Cat 4 when it made landfall, and was projected to still be a 2 when it passed over Jacksonville, but in reality weakened significantly and was only a tropical storm by the time it got here. Granted, there is still the chance for tornadoes. My boat was damaged by Irma too, but only because of the storm surge, the water rose enough that my boat was no longer protected by the fender boards.

Ian was bad for the west coast, crossed the state from west to east, most of the boats that sunk on the east coast were anchored or moored.

Most creeks that I know of in the Jax area have bridges over them, so it's not possible to sneak a sailboat up them.

Then that says even more about how poorly that marina was constructed. It was destroyed along with many, many boats. Yes…. The “moorings”. Lol. I am not legally allowed to talk about this. So I can’t.

You have to get the chart out and look a little more carefully. That’s exactly where I hid mine for the second hurricane. A creek off the St John’s. Anchored without a (new) scratch. Plenty of old scratches from the previous hurricane, though.

Really, it just comes down to ingenuity and getting the hell out of the marinas (unless your marina is well inland and it’s more of a small pond). That’s what I have learned after 4 of them now.

[sailingunity]

You must be referring to this un-named marina, or what's left of it. Lots of fetch on this river! Destroyed most of the private docks as well.

Reynolds survived because they are solid concrete docks that were built for Navy ships, but my boat didn't do as well.

[MicHughV]

I've stayed on my boat(s) several times during hurricanes...it is after all my home.

I have not experienced a direct hit, but several that came zipping by quite close.

For sure, it is a rocking and rolling experience and the odds of sleeping thru' it are pretty much nil. I would reasonably estimate the wind speed to have been around 70 mph. It may not sound like much, but the sounds it makes shrieking thru' the rigging will be impressive.

I think a cat 3 or higher is where I'll be moving off....no doubt about that in my mind.

What I find impressive is that the wind field of these storms are massive. Even far from the eye, you'll know it.

Even a sustained 50-60 mph wind will get your attention.

People focus too much on the wind speed, forgetting that wind pressure goes up as the square of windspeed. A few miles per hour can and will make a big difference.

At the end of the day, you throw the dice.....as there is no certainly about much of anything with these storms.