Almost that time - hurricane season

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Rio Dulce? It will be a 5-8 day sail but you can get some refit done for painting/fiberglass/stainless fab relatively cheap while there. I don't know but have heard it said that it is the best ocean/sailboat hurricane hole in the western hemisphere.

[Hudson Force]

I would never have shared information about my favorite "hurricane hole" in Jacksonville while I still had my boat, but my cruising days are over. There's a small very well protected basin behind the Florida Yacht Club known as Pirate's Cove where I spent two hurricanes at anchor. There's a bit less than six feet over soft mud at entry and mostly the same throughout. I'd guess it to be about three hundred yards in diameter. We were very secure there with few other boats at anchor,- two at the most at my events. No fetch and large surrounding homes. We spent the settling hours as the winds were diminishing with our generator running and watching movies. We were the only lights as all the surrounding homes were without power.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

You must be referring to this un-named marina, or what's left of it. Lots of fetch on this river! Destroyed most of the private docks as well.

Reynolds survived because they are solid concrete docks that were built for Navy ships, but my boat didn't do as well.

This "un-named maria was Whitney's and my home marina for about thirty years. My slip for most of that time was at the "L" shaped corner in the lower left of the photo. We always left for major storms as the fetch was a bit over two miles to the NE. Although this marina did suffer some hurricane damage, the docks and pilings missing in the photo were mechanically removed after the marina, on leased property, was sold and expected to be repurposed. We sailed away from this marina at retirement in 2002 for 15 years of steady "underway".

[MicHughV]

A little while back I was in Sint Maartin, which has an enclosed lagoon named Simpson Bay. Pretty much everyone thought this was the perfect "hurricane hole" and the place was packed to the gills by boats of every description seeking refuge there when hurricane Irma was put on the map.

By the time Irma came to visit in 2017, it had grown into a fat cat 5 and pretty much demolished every boat in that lagoon, not to mention a lot of other things as well. Irma was packing winds in the 170 mph plus range by this time. I toured around there some time later and the destruction was mind blowing.

I also had an opportunity to go the Homestead area after Hurricane Andrew (1992) came whistling thru' there, another fat cat 5. I was there maybe a week after it hit.

Like Sint Maartin, the destruction was beyond the ability of my mind to wrap around.

I have several photo albums of the destruction I saw.

But pictures don't tell the real story. A photo is a snapshot of a tiny area.

When you see the place with your naked eye, it's a completely other story.
As far as the eye can see in every direction, there is such unbelievable destruction, that one's mind can simply not grasp it all.

The difference between a cat 1 and cat 5 hurricane is monumental.

Hurricane Dorian, another fat cat 5 completely obliterated the Abaco's. After doing that, it looked like West Palm Beach was going to get eaten next, when for reasons unknown, it veered north.

My uneducated 2c on the matter is that the Gulf Stream had some or other affect on this storm.

Ironically, most storms that pass north Florida are usually 70-100 miles off shore, smack dab where the Gulf Stream is located. Coincidence ?? The mind ponders.

Having seen what a cat 5 can do, there is no way in hell I'd stay on a boat.

[Chotu]

I agree.

Getting off the boat is important. Just in case.

I’ve done up to category one staying aboard. And that was enough for me. Nothing went wrong. But if it did there would be nothing I could have done to stop the boat from doing whatever it wanted to. Maybe motoring into the wind as best you can. But even that is dicey. You’ll probably have the bow thrown off to the side and end up drifting anyway.

[Bobby Lex]

I’ve lived and sailed in Florida for over 40 years and have seen many hurricanes. Up until Ian my attitude was …. find a good hurricane hole …. find a place where storms have historically rarely gone …. tie your boat to pilings not dock cleats …. use an excessive # of oversized lines …. and your boat will probably be ok.

The problem is that while this strategy works most of the time it only takes ONE storm to do you in. For me Ian was that one storm, and all that strategizing and planning and preparation was fruitless.

Sometimes $hit happens and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to prevent it.

Bob

[Chotu]

Bob, I have to say I really disagree. I’m posting this not so much do you have any kind of argument, but to try to give people hope.

You can save your boat from a hurricane if that’s your priority.

I made sure my boat was ready for Ian. And here’s a map of where my boat was and where Ian was. My boat saw over 100 mile an hour winds for that one. It was between 110 and 120 miles an hour before the anemometer stopped working. The docks went underwater. But because I located my boat in a place that could survive that type of situation, I didn’t get a scratch.

Fetch? 500ft or so. Encircled by land. Far, far away from storm surge, but they did dump lake okeechobee out which put all the docks underwater.

We carefully prepared the boat for the storm and the rise in water. No damage (again), just like the other direct hit near Jacksonville where I shoved it so far up a creek trees were the greatest danger.

You really can do it if it’s a priority, but of course it has to be your first priority. If you have a house or something else that you have to worry about, you’re not going to be able to make the boat first priority.

Me? I don’t have a house. After all the damage I got already from the other hurricane in Jacksonville, I had preemptively located my boat in the best place in Florida to survive hurricanes. I was done with hurricane damage. And it worked again. Even for Ian. Even though it was a direct hit.

The damage in Jacksonville was caused because I could not get back to the boat. It was unattended and it was at a marina. The marina was destroyed. I was in Los Angeles and saw the hurricane. But they had already close the flights so I immediately drove all the way back. Didn’t make it in time.

See the green dot on the map? That’s where I was for Ian. It was a direct hit. The eye went right over it. Not even an hour away from Fort Myers Beach.

You don’t have to accept defeat or feel helpless. You really can save your boat from hurricanes if it’s your first priority and you’re there to do it.

I post this not to argue with you, but I’m posting it so that other people reading can have hope. It is possible. It’s not a hopeless situation. Your boat just has to be your first priority and you have to take charge of the situation.

[mvweebles]

A good friend keeps his very nice boat behind his house south of Clearwater, St Pete area. 3-days before Ian, he was on the direct path of Ian with indications the storm would veer north, perhaps hitting Apalachicola in the panhandle. He considered moving his boat out of harms way. Had he had more time and not had to deal with his house and those of relatives, he probably would have moved the bowt........to Ft Myers area.

[Bobby Lex]

Chofu, as the saying goes, “Hope is not a plan”. My boat was my priority. But when a 50’ steel ketch broke loose and knocked a 42’ 16 ton boat loose and they both drifted down on my boat and pounded it to death, it was hopeless. The 4 pilings she was tied to snapped — lines still attached.

I’m not saying that you shouldn’t try to prepare and have a plan and protect your boat. I’m saying that sometimes all the prepping in the world doesn’t work.

Tens is thousands of boats were lost in Ian. Don’t try to imply that every one of those owners didn’t prepare properly or that their boat wasn’t their priority.

Bob

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by dannc

People focus on the wind speed, with good reason, but the storm surge and flooding is a huge factor in hurricanes.


Later,
Dan

During Ivan in 2004, the surge lifted the Navy Floating Docks over their pilings then the parts that stayed connected took out all the boats anchored in the Bayou Grande Hurricane Hole.

This in Mid September 2004

Katrina occurred the following year 2005 in August.

When Katrina was 180 miles South of land heading toward the Mississippi Gulf Coast and New Orleans the tide level in Pensacola was near Cat 1 levels.

Pensacola is about 180 miles by road from New Orleans.

Surge during Katrina was 26'

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lex

Chofu, as the saying goes, “Hope is not a plan”. My boat was my priority. But when a 50’ steel ketch broke loose and knocked a 42’ 16 ton boat loose and they both drifted down on my boat and pounded it to death, it was hopeless. The 4 pilings she was tied to snapped — lines still attached.

I’m not saying that you shouldn’t try to prepare and have a plan and protect your boat. I’m saying that sometimes all the prepping in the world doesn’t work.

Tens is thousands of boats were lost in Ian. Don’t try to imply that every one of those owners didn’t prepare properly or that their boat wasn’t their priority.

Bob

I am sorry for your loss and have experienced the same type of thing but not a complete loss. I don’t know which is better.

When I wasn’t prepared for the hurricane, the entire marina was destroyed and all of the boats including mine smashed together against the concrete and steel seawall where the travel lift is. Many of them sunk. The only reason mine didn’t is because it doesn’t weigh anything. So it didn’t have momentum as it was smashing into things. It’s also made out of soft foam. So when something impact the side of it, it dents the foam in rather than destroys the fiberglass. So I got off with a lot of cosmetic damage rather than structural. I really don’t know what’s better. Collecting insurance and getting a new boat is a lot easier than fixing the disaster that happened to mine. So I’m not speaking from a position of not experiencing it.

However, you were at the marina. You didn’t do what I said.

If you moved up the river where I was, you would still have the same boat.

In your case if you spent one day taking the boat inland, where mine was, you would still have the same boat right now. My boat was only 45 minutes away from yours by car.

I don’t really understand your defeatist attitude but maybe that’s just how you are dealing with the loss. I know it hurts a lot. I am still devastated. I spent over a decade building my boat only to have it destroyed one year later by a hurricane. It’s still looks like crap. And it was pristine when I was finished building it. Perfectionism. It still hurts when I look at it.

And because of the hurricane damage, people who I had hired to work on the boat treated it like crap and didn’t preserve the parts that were still good. They just assume because it has cosmetic damage but it’s a piece of crap. And now it looks even worse because they didn’t care for it or even mask things when painting or doing epoxy work. It’s been greatly damaged by people working on it.

But we were in the same place for the same hurricane. My plan worked and yours didn’t. So I think mine’s right. All you have to do is move your boat 45min (by driving, a day by boat) inland. Keeping your boat on the coast for a hurricane is inviting problems.

I have now survived 2 direct, category 3+ hits this way including Ian by doing it the way I’m explaining. You have to stuff your boat as far inland as you can possibly get it. Doesn’t matter if you are in skinny water and trees are in danger of falling on the boat. It will do better than it would on the coast.

The best way to sum it up? If there’s a potential of a hurricane find a river. Spend a day going up that river. And then from that river find a creek. And stuff your boat as far up that creek as you can. Where you are not even supposed to be. Not even navigable water.

It really does work.

[Chotu]

And I’m not trying to be harsh with you, Bob. You have suffered a great loss. It’s awful. I understand from experience.

Please don’t take it the wrong way. I’m trying to show people that they actually can control if their boat is damaged by a hurricane or not. They can greatly increase the odds in their favor by getting the boat inland and away from other boats.

And rereading my above post really hits home actually. I’m talking a great deal about how to stuff your boat up a creek and I’m not going to be able to do that anymore because I can’t get under a 65 foot bridge after this month. That’s going to change hurricane plans dramatically for me and increase my risk.

Ugh

[neilpride]

First Luis, then Lenny coming from the other side, Earl, Hugo, Irma, Irma changed everything, in the sense that if the wind is capable of knocking down a hotel, what can you expect with a boat.

The best and safest technique to survive a hurricane and keep your boat intact is to be out of the hurricane zone, as that is not possible for many, having a good insurance policy gives some peace of mind, to think that a river or a mangrove can save you from a bad hurricane is a matter of luck. I have seen boats without masts stuck in a hole and tied with dozens of straps end up 2 miles away wrecked.

[Cthoops]

There is always - ALWAYS - an element of luck involved when it comes to a hurricane. You can do all of the preparations, find the perfect place inland, and if the storm wobbles in the wrong direction, you are SOL.

As for staying on the boat, we had Tropical Storm Isiais pass right over us in the Chesapeake. We even experienced the eye, which was amazing. However, we learned two things from that storm: we will never think of something as “just” a tropical storm (Isiais was just under a cat 1 by the time it reached us), and we will never again stay on the boat. She’s our only home, but we are more important than the boat.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Jacksonville has been my home area since 1972 and where I've managed my boat during a number of hurricane threats. I'm wondering if the "houses two stories tall .....and water up to the roof" could have been with the Black Creek area flooding in Clay County. This would have been from catchment basin flooding and not the storm surge. I was cruising far away from my home port for some events and you may be correct; however, I'm not familiar with this height of storm surge in the St. Johns estuary region. Certainly, you're correct about the docks being covered by water. 'good advice for all to be wary!

I am not sure which county this part of the family lives but the area has had flooding in the past and they are on a creek that runs into the St. Johns river. I have only been to the place once when I was a teenager and I am pretty sure their lot is not that far from the river.

I was told by family, and news reports, that the hurricane pushed storm water into the St. Johns and thus up the creek they live next too. It was a bunch of water because their house is built on poles with nothing on the ground level but the upper floors were flooded out. The storm circulation was perfect for pushing water up the St. Johns. Pretty sure this was Irma.

Later,
Dan