Opinion on bluewater sailboat characteristics

[Ribe16]

Hello everybody, I'm thinking about buying a bluewater sailboat, mainly to be sailed solo and capable of going anywhere, basically crossing the Atlantic.
I'm thinking about the following characteristics, and beeing completely aware that the ideal boat does not exist, I would very much appreciate your personal opinion on the pros and cons you find. What I want is to read different arguments that I might consider and enrich me.
I am putting personal safety and integrity of the boat as a priority, at least that's what I try.
1. It will be in the 30 to 40 ft range (best 30 to 35) The idea is to decrease initial and maintenane costs.
2. Ketch (better for handling and manuvering)
3. Steel hull (heavier but more resistant if you hit a container, rock, etc)
4. Long keel (slower, but better protection for the rudder)
5. Steering wheel inside the cabin, in case of bad weather, no need to get out to be exposed.
Thank you all very much .

[Na Mara]

If you can give up on the demand for steel, and can make do with rediculously strong grp (8cm thick at the keel I believe) then the perfect boat for you sounds like a fisher 34. Long keel, protected rudder, great accommodation for a couple or single hander, fantastic pilot house, and built like a brick outhouse. Not fast, but they are massively strong and able to keep going even in the worst conditions.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

If you can give up on the demand for steel, and can make do with rediculously strong grp (8cm thick at the keel I believe) then the perfect boat for you sounds like a fisher 34. Long keel, protected rudder, great accommodation for a couple or single hander, fantastic pilot house, and built like a brick outhouse. Not fast, but they are massively strong and able to keep going even in the worst conditions.

very poor sailing vessels in my experience

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Ribe16

Hello everybody, I'm thinking about buying a

...

1. It will be in the 30 to 40 ft range (best 30 to 35) The idea is to decrease initial and maintenane costs.
2. Ketch (better for handling and manuvering)
3. Steel hull (heavier but more resistant if you hit a container, rock, etc)
4. Long keel (slower, but better protection for the rudder)
5. Steering wheel inside the cabin, in case of bad weather, no need to get out to be exposed.
Thank you all very much .

Ketch lots of extra string and a mast for little gain in a small vessel

Steel , in 35 feet , not really workable

Long keel , very slow in light airs, which is what you experience most of teh time

Inside steering , in a pilot house , Hard to make in work in a small boat

You looking for a Unicorn

[Na Mara]

For me it was clear from the OP’s opening post that sailing performance was secondary to other criteria. My experience of fishers is that they sail just fine on all points except hard on the wind, but then you put the engine on and are motorsailing nicely all the way up to about 30degrees apparent.

IMHO there are few more handsome sights than a fisher ketch on a beam reach in fresh winds.

They aren’t for me as I like to sail even in light airs, but with the OPs priorities it’s a perfect boat.

[MyCatLife]

Have a look at Island Packets. Might fit most of your needs

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ketch lots of extra string and a mast for little gain in a small vessel

Steel , in 35 feet , not really workable

Long keel , very slow in light airs, which is what you experience most of teh time

Inside steering , in a pilot house , Hard to make in work in a small boat

You looking for a Unicorn

Yes the OP has enough knowledge to setup this criteria, but not enough to find the boats that meet it. This criteria is far from what I would want for an offshore cruiser.

[Pete7]

Were are you going after crossing the Atlantic? For example a steel tub will be hot in the Med.

Personally, I would chose a fin keeled GRP sloop, a skeg or half skeg rudder would be nice.

Size is about right, have a look at Jambo Sailing on YT to see what can be done without too much fuss and have a really nice sailing for pleasure.

Pete

[Na Mara]

Ok let’s analyze the OPs criteria from his perspective of being:

1 he’s a single hander
2 wanting a boat that can go anywhere
3 wanting a strong, reliable boat.

His first desideratum is a size range of preferably 30-35ft. This seems entirely sensible to me. It’s big enough to cope with nasty stuff offshore and to accommodate a single person comfortably with occasional guests but small enough to be single handed.

His second is a preference for a ketch. Again this seems sensible to me particularly as he isn’t that concerned with top notch sailing performance but more about reliability and safety. Two independent masts give redundancy, and each sail being smaller makes loads lighter and sail handling easier for a single hander without the need to rely on sailhandling systems. Particularly being able to go jib and jigger in rough conditions is a big advantage for a single hander. So again I see the logic.

Then he wants the strongest hull he can have which ideally is steel. Here he has a problem though as steel hulls are really too heavy until you get over 40ft so here he has to make a compromise between his preferred hull material and his preferred size. In any case it’s clear his main concern is robustness and reliability and so he is looking for this kind of boat.

Then the encapsulated long keel with integral rudder. Again if your main concern is robustness and reliability and not sailing performance then this is eminently sensible.

Finally there is his preference for a pilothouse. For a single hander wanting to go anywhere I don’t just think this is a good idea, I think it is almost essential for comfort and security aboard.

So again. Given his priorities I think his wish list is entirely sensible. What is more there are boats out there that meet his criteria(except the one about hull material). He could also look at older LM’s, degero, and nauticats, though IMHO the best of breed here is obviously the fishers

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Ok let’s analyze the OPs criteria from his perspective of being:

1 he’s a single hander
2 wanting a boat that can go anywhere
3 wanting a strong, reliable boat.

His first desideratum is a size range of preferably 30-35ft. This seems entirely sensible to me. It’s big enough to cope with nasty stuff offshore and to accommodate a single person comfortably with occasional guests but small enough to be single handed.

His second is a preference for a ketch. Again this seems sensible to me particularly as he isn’t that concerned with top notch sailing performance but more about reliability and safety. Two independent masts give redundancy, and each sail being smaller makes loads lighter and sail handling easier for a single hander without the need to rely on sailhandling systems. Particularly being able to go jib and jigger in rough conditions is a big advantage for a single hander. So again I see the logic.

Then he wants the strongest hull he can have which ideally is steel. Here he has a problem though as steel hulls are really too heavy until you get over 40ft so here he has to make a compromise between his preferred hull material and his preferred size. In any case it’s clear his main concern is robustness and reliability and so he is looking for this kind of boat.

Then the encapsulated long keel with integral rudder. Again if your main concern is robustness and reliability and not sailing performance then this is eminently sensible.

Finally there is his preference for a pilothouse. For a single hander wanting to go anywhere I don’t just think this is a good idea, I think it is almost essential for comfort and security aboard.

So again. Given his priorities I think his wish list is entirely sensible. What is more there are boats out there that meet his criteria(except the one about hull material). He could also look at older LM’s, degero, and nauticats, though IMHO the best of breed here is obviously the fishers

Well the first criteria was a boat to sail offshore. Steel is not a good choice for small boats. You can't scale the plate thickness down because the boat is 30 ft. It will still corrode away like a bigger boat. This makes the boat overly heavy and a poor sailor. Then why go to a ketch? It is less efficient than a sloop, ie does not sail as well. The sail sizes on a 30 to 35 ft boat are not large. Far better to have a boat with a solent setup or an inner stay.
Full keel. Again slower, but if that's what you want, go for it.
Safety is not achieved by making every passage 1/3 longer with 33% more exposure to weather.

[Ribe16]

Thanks a lot, Paul L.
Yes, you mention a very important aspect, speed. As I once read, accidents or problems at sea only happen while you are at sea, so it might be safer to be able to make the trip shorter by increasing speed.
I have given a good thought, indeed, to the point you mention.
What kind of hull and boat would you consider would be fast and strong enough? (and yes, what is enough anyway? Well, what about crashing against a rock or container?)

[Ribe16]

Pete 7, thanks for your reply and suggestion.
I plan to cross the Atlantic from Mexico, where I live, to Spain, where I have family, and back. I don't know right now where else I might go, South Pacific maybe?

[Cheechako]

A couple thoughts:

1. It will be in the 30 to 40 ft range (best 30 to 35) The idea is to decrease initial and maintenane costs. That's a very wide range. 30 is much different than 38. I would think about maybe 35-36 etc for singlehanding is a nice compormise.
2. Ketch (better for handling and manuvering) At that size I would forget the Ketch, more negatives than positives.
3. Steel hull (heavier but more resistant if you hit a container, rock, etc) Granted they are strong, but high maintenance, heavy etc. Minimal market to buy or sell also.
4. Long keel (slower, but better protection for the rudder) Good idea.
5. Steering wheel inside the cabin, in case of bad weather, no need to get out to be exposed. Nice if you can find it with other things you want. But a good autopilot will do that 90%+ of the time.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Ribe16

What kind of hull and boat would you consider would be fast and strong enough? (and yes, what is enough anyway? Well, what about crashing against a rock or container?)

A 14 year old girl sailed a Jeanneau Sun Fiz around the world by avoiding rocks. Actually quite a good choice of yacht for the trip and a solo sailor. Fast and a real pleasure to sail which I think is really important. We nearly bought the smaller Sunrise but an outstanding £6000 import duty bill couldn't be explained by the broker so we walked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrs...lingFoundation

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Ribe16

Thanks a lot, Paul L.
Yes, you mention a very important aspect, speed. As I once read, accidents or problems at sea only happen while you are at sea, so it might be safer to be able to make the trip shorter by increasing speed.
I have given a good thought, indeed, to the point you mention.
What kind of hull and boat would you consider would be fast and strong enough? (and yes, what is enough anyway? Well, what about crashing against a rock or container?)

Ribe,

I can only agree with the others, a steel boat is that size makes little to no sense. fiberglass is strong and if you should happen to hit something, can be repaired (even while at sea).

The chances of hitting something out there that will knock a big hole in your boat are less than small. It rarely happens. Getting the rudder bent or knocked off is a bigger danger.

Since your plans so far are to sail in the warmer climates, I would not insist on having a pilothouse if I were you. A good strong sprayhood and a bimini will serve you just fine.

While at sea, you'll be cruising on the autopilot or the windvane most of the time so the time spent at the helm will be relatively small. Coastal sailing or entering anchorages/harbours, you'll like the increased visibility of an open helm.

Something in the 33-37 foot range will suit you. Less than 33 feet will present storage issues - especially if you plan on living on board for a number of years.

There are other issues that will present themselves, spare parts, tools, if you are going into the pacific, a watermaker. how will you generate electricity? solar(my recommendation) windmill? watermill? generator? engine?

All things issues become more difficult if you are >30 feet.