Opinion on bluewater sailboat characteristics

[Don C L]

Yes $60,000 can get you there. I'd even say to look at those in the $40,000 range and have $20,000 left over if you can. Have you thought about traveling around the Sea of Cortez in your search for boats and opportunities for gaining sailing experience? It's a beautiful area IMO and sometimes folks sail there from up north and then don't want to go north or south and decide to sell. You may just decide to stay cruising around there!

I would not rule out, or doubt, fiberglass too much. There are many boats built very strongly in glass and they are extremely durable and can take a tremendous hit and keep on sailing. You may have heard about the boats built in the early days, late 50's and 60's, when they were hand laid up and very thick. Many of those boats have held up very well and are still going strong. I have one like that. The only negative to those older boats is that they were often built to a rule that kept them narrow with lots of length on deck and a short waterline, so in terms of performance and roominess inside they are not as attractive as more modern designs. But many are still sailing across oceans. My own old school design appeals to me for its seakindliness which is probably mainly a personal thing. But its particular motion suits me well. There are many modern fiberglass boats built very tough too, but they may be out of your budget. Based on my own experience, if I were shooting for the "perfect" boat it would probably be something along the lines of the Kelly Peterson 44, but in the 35 foot range I'd be looking at the Pearson Rhodes 41, which is really a 35 foot boat in a 41 foot body But really lovely boats and it too has the seakindliness I like, especially upwind, if not all the performance (though they aren't slugs.) Now the boat I lust for is a trimaran, but that is a different story. These are just my OWN preferences at this point in time and subject to change... someone may be able talk me into a big cat someday... but I kinda doubt it.

[Ribe16]

Thanks a lot again Don C L, very usefull comments and recomendations.
Right now I am very open minded and considering every option and opinion, that's why I made the question in the forum.
Yes, I am deffinetely considering FG as an option (as well as keel types, etc), specially after watching the crash test video posted by Pete7, impresive.
Thanks again to you and to everybody participating in the forum, hopefully one day I will be able to contribute.

[SofaKingFishy]

Originally Posted by Ribe16

Hello everybody, I'm thinking about buying a bluewater sailboat, mainly to be sailed solo and capable of going anywhere, basically crossing the Atlantic.
I'm thinking about the following characteristics, and beeing completely aware that the ideal boat does not exist, I would very much appreciate your personal opinion on the pros and cons you find. What I want is to read different arguments that I might consider and enrich me.
I am putting personal safety and integrity of the boat as a priority, at least that's what I try.
1. It will be in the 30 to 40 ft range (best 30 to 35) The idea is to decrease initial and maintenane costs.
2. Ketch (better for handling and manuvering)
3. Steel hull (heavier but more resistant if you hit a container, rock, etc)
4. Long keel (slower, but better protection for the rudder)
5. Steering wheel inside the cabin, in case of bad weather, no need to get out to be exposed.
Thank you all very much .

A 30-35’ steel ketch sounds like a backyard kit boat. There are several in my home marina & you can likely pick one up for cheap. It will sail like a stump, so, yeah- I imagine you’ll hit all kinds of things. Better throw some bubble wrap on the prop while you’re at it. Honestly, this sounds like you’ve just cobbled together some Internet armchair comments.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Ribe16

I am putting personal safety and integrity of the boat as a priority, at least that's what I try.
1. It will be in the 30 to 40 ft range (best 30 to 35) The idea is to decrease initial and maintenane costs.
2. Ketch (better for handling and manuvering)
3. Steel hull (heavier but more resistant if you hit a container, rock, etc)
4. Long keel (slower, but better protection for the rudder)
5. Steering wheel inside the cabin, in case of bad weather, no need to get out to be exposed.
Thank you all very much .

Herewith the opinion of one naval architect.

I think you've read too many articles written by people who don't know what they are talking about.

1. There is a lot of room between 30 and 40 feet. Length is a poor metric. Don't look at length - look at cost. Look at displacement. Look at boat speed (don't ever bring up hull speed - it doesn't exist) and particularly polars. Look at tankage in terms of duration.

2. Multiple masts on small boats mean lots of extra rigging, lots of tripping hazards, increased sail costs, and a myriad of other inconveniences without appreciable benefits. An Amel 55 under full sail is beautiful, but I'd rather sail an HR 53/54. Make a 30' boat out of those and you would not be happy with a ketch.

3. Metal boats don't scale down well. Fiberglass is plenty strong and strength to weight is better. Build cost is lower also.

4. Definitely too many ill-informed articles and no understanding of the history of naval architecture or of current structural engineering. Lots of fin and modified fin boats with skeg hung rudders.

5. Small pilot house boats are pretty awful. Layouts mean lots of internal steps which are a hazard (deck saloons suffer the same deficit). You can't see the sails; no - that 9" hatch over the steering station is not good enough. You end up with small cockpits and getting on deck takes longer with more climbing. Everything takes more time. Not good for a single hander.

Transatlantic twice with perhaps the South Pacific is not an expedition boat, and an expedition boat at 30 ft would not be much fun.

Lots of high priority characteristics--higher than those you have listed--you ignore. Head at base of companionway. Clean decks. Good hull design for speed AND seakeeping. Good galley layout. Storage layout is more important than volume. Build details that reduce leakage. Ventilation (no you should not open hatches and ports at sea). Dinghy storage. Visibility. Good electronics outfit you can do on any boat but it needs to be kept in mind - details.

[boatman61]

In the sizes you're looking at a yawl will be better than a ketch..
Here's a Nantucket Clipper 32 by Alan Buchanan.

[dbraymer]

You might wish to think number 5 thru. Wheel house profiles draw windage. The shorter the vessel, the greater the windage per proportion.

If you got a center cockpit with a doghouse/dodger, you get the elevated view, and protection from in-climate weather. You will need an auto pilot to steer while you huddle under the dodger.

We have a center cockpit with hard dodger and bimini, and that can be pretty comfortable in almost all conditions.

Of course this is all dependent upon prevaling weather, but we are talking about a deep water all weather capable vessel I assume...

[jalmberg]

Sounds like my boat, à Joshua 40. There were about 70 built and one comes up for sale every year or so. Google them and their amazing history, especially under one of the most amazing single handlers of all time, Bernard Moitessier.

[Ribe16]

Originally Posted by dbraymer

You might wish to think number 5 thru. Wheel house profiles draw windage.

Thank you dbrymer, for your comments.
I guess I got it wrong when I mentioned the wheel in the cabin. The idea I was trying to give is to have an extra steering wheel inside, besides the normal steering in the cockpit (either a tiller or a steering wheel). I have read that some (maybe very very few) boats have them.
I do agree with your comment on the extra drag of the wheel house and see the benefits of the center cockpit. I think Hallberg-Rassy has some nice designs.

[double u]

Ribe16: my advice: discount all post where posters extoll features of or their boats! Noticable in many posts: opinion getting presented as fact; avoid, Ribe16!

[merrydolphin]

From the OP’s post, he is not experienced and his criteria is that of an inexperienced cruiser. That’s ok. We all have to start somewhere.

And Yes, given his criteria, a Fisher would fit the bill! Anything much under 40 feet just isn’t practical for steel.

Another one might be a West Sail 32 with a good hard dodger.

I have a close friend and very experienced sailor that bought a Fisher 33 and singlehanded it to Florida from the UK. He took the rhumb line and had a great trip. Pretty amazing I thought.

At one point I almost bought a Fisher 37. I’m just a sucker for those lines. Actually not that practical a boat. Very chopped up down below. Poor use of space etc. but just has an attraction to me. I have met other cruisers down in the S Caribbean that loved theirs.

I ended up buying a Cal 2-46 and VERY very glad that I did. Wonderful boat in all ways. Sailed 200 mile days and could motor like a trawler. The room of one too. And MANY have circumnavigated.

[hpeer]

I always recommend this book, it has a whole chapter dedicated to this exact topic.

https://www.amazon.com/Singlehanded-.../dp/0070281645

[hpeer]

I don’t know, I have a 33’ steel Brewer designed Murray 33. Gets me around and off shore pretty good.

Its NOT a Fisher, sail much better.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Herewith the opinion of one naval architect.

I think you've read too many articles written by people who don't know what they are talking about.

1. There is a lot of room between 30 and 40 feet. Length is a poor metric. Don't look at length - look at cost. Look at displacement. Look at boat speed (don't ever bring up hull speed - it doesn't exist) and particularly polars. Look at tankage in terms of duration.

2. Multiple masts on small boats mean lots of extra rigging, lots of tripping hazards, increased sail costs, and a myriad of other inconveniences without appreciable benefits. An Amel 55 under full sail is beautiful, but I'd rather sail an HR 53/54. Make a 30' boat out of those and you would not be happy with a ketch.

3. Metal boats don't scale down well. Fiberglass is plenty strong and strength to weight is better. Build cost is lower also.

4. Definitely too many ill-informed articles and no understanding of the history of naval architecture or of current structural engineering. Lots of fin and modified fin boats with skeg hung rudders.

5. Small pilot house boats are pretty awful. Layouts mean lots of internal steps which are a hazard (deck saloons suffer the same deficit). You can't see the sails; no - that 9" hatch over the steering station is not good enough. You end up with small cockpits and getting on deck takes longer with more climbing. Everything takes more time. Not good for a single hander.

Transatlantic twice with perhaps the South Pacific is not an expedition boat, and an expedition boat at 30 ft would not be much fun.

Lots of high priority characteristics--higher than those you have listed--you ignore. Head at base of companionway. Clean decks. Good hull design for speed AND seakeeping. Good galley layout. Storage layout is more important than volume. Build details that reduce leakage. Ventilation (no you should not open hatches and ports at sea). Dinghy storage. Visibility. Good electronics outfit you can do on any boat but it needs to be kept in mind - details.

Auspicious is giving you good advice. From your post you are going the coconut milk run - you do not need an expedition boat to do this. A wheelhouse is a pain in the tropics - hot as all get out and no breeze gets in to cool it down.
Go with an open cockpit - either center or aft. Center cockpits are drier, but if you are at all prone to seasickness, they also roll more.
We have an aft cockpit and haven't felt it was wet. If something does come in - well the water in the tropics is warm.

You need to spend a lot more time determining how much tankage (water/diesel) you will need. Storage for tools and spare parts. Food. Is there a good place to hang dripping foulies?

Finally, when you are cruising, you sill spend 85-90% of your time at anchor - not sailing. So you need to look very carefully at the boat to see if it is a home you can live comfortably in.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by double u

Ribe16: my advice: discount all post where posters extoll features of or their boats! Noticable in many posts: opinion getting presented as fact; avoid, Ribe16!

In fact, all anyone can do with authority is talk about their own boat. Everything else is second hand knowledge. Much more dangerous, IMHO.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

In fact, all anyone can do with authority is talk about their own boat. Everything else is second hand knowledge. Much more dangerous, IMHO.

Some of us have sailed a lot of different boats over the years.