Merry Christmas from Guardia Civil (Spain)- insurance q

[Joh.Ghurt]

Tupaia mentioned it, but Americans often overlook what they really need. Nobody gives a crap about your boat, you need a third party indemnity insurance. And those you can get easily for less than 100€ / year. They keywords to get them in Spain are:

Seguro de responsabilidad civil embarcaciones (RD607/99)

You need coverage of 370000€ or more. If you go for a million or three, the price doesn’t change much, that’s a worthwhile upgrade. You should however limit the insurance to European waters and don’t get upsold to cover your boat too.

This will cover you for all marinas in Europe and will allow you to navigate in Spain or Italy.

[Katapult Mike]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Tupaia mentioned it, but Americans often overlook what they really need. Nobody gives a crap about your boat, you need a third party indemnity insurance. And those you can get easily for less than 100€ / year. They keywords to get them in Spain are:

Seguro de responsabilidad civil embarcaciones (RD607/99)

You need coverage of 370000€ or more. If you go for a million or three, the price doesn’t change much, that’s a worthwhile upgrade. You should however limit the insurance to European waters and don’t get upsold to cover your boat too.

This will cover you for all marinas in Europe and will allow you to navigate in Spain or Italy.

Great post Joh! Informatve, to the point, useful. I would love to see more posts like this and less scolding fellow forum members.

[Stewie12]

Where are you in Spain ?

Where is your boat registered ?

I take it that you have a US passport.

[Gianluca]

You should expect to be asked for Liability Insurance at most of the marinas. I’m cruising the Med since July and I’ve been asked to show them the Liability Insurance, Vessel documentation and my Passport in all the stops in Spain, France and now, Italy.

[Farbrook]

There seems to me to be an undertone in some of these replies that the OP has behaved badly, or even immorally. I disagree.

Anecdotally there appear to be very many yachtsmen sailing the globe without insurance and this has probably been the case since Ahab, so in terms of 'custom and practice' it seems highly morally defensible.

The risks of not holding insurance seem to me to be threefold:
1. the loss of your vessel in an accident which brings your sailing life to an end because you have insufficient money to replace it;
2. being chased by a third party (an insurance company usually, or an individual if he/she is also uninsured) following damage you cause to their property or body;
3. being prosecuted for failing to comply with local laws.

The obvious point being that holding insurance doesn't reduce the likelihood of having an accident, it merely eases your subsequent financial pain. Personally I carry a high level of insurance but only because I sleep better as a result, if the OP sleeps well while understanding the risks that seems OK to me.

However most activities tend to become more regulated as time passes and that's certainly the case in the EU so it pays to try to keep an eye on the various regulations that apply to cruisers here - Noonsite is a very good resource for this.

I think the OP was lucky not to have been asked for insurance in the French marina, I have used many marinas in the EU and several elsewhere in the last few years and have always needed to supply proof of insurance.

I'm sorry not to be able to point towards a source of insurance, but bearing in mind the number of US yachts in the Med it seems likely there is a good source somewhere. Perhaps getting in touch with some US skippers might yield results.

Also if, as you say, your objective is just to get a document that shows you are insured rather than actually be insured, you could perhaps complete an insurance application with a fairly casual regard to the facts.

Good luck.

[sstj29]

If all you need is a paper to prove you are insured, i would try edward williams, they are notorious as refusing to pay when you claim for damages on your boat, but for liability it could do the trick for you. And if i recall they are located in spain.

[martin.purser]

Try Blue water ins 561 743 3442 They are a Florida broker. But deal with Lloyds and other insurance markets and companies outside the U.S.

[Jan Beydals]

Edward williams is in my experience not as bad as its reputation. Paid me out ( lost rig ) And as gar as I know one of the vety few companies left to cover single handed off shore in older boat

[sycheckmate]

Try Mapfre. They are a Spanish Co. and I had a good experience with them some years ago.

[sycheckmate]

Edward William refused to renew my insurance this year. Storage and Cruising Greek waters

[markxengineerin]

Thank you for requesting an online proposal form from Edward William. It is with regret that we are no longer offering cover in the European Union, so we are unable to provide a quote at this time.

Too bad!

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Farbrook

There seems to me to be an undertone in some of these replies that the OP has behaved badly, or even immorally. I disagree.

Anecdotally there appear to be very many yachtsmen sailing the globe without insurance and this has probably been the case since Ahab, so in terms of 'custom and practice' it seems highly morally defensible.

The risks of not holding insurance seem to me to be threefold:
1. the loss of your vessel in an accident which brings your sailing life to an end because you have insufficient money to replace it;
2. being chased by a third party (an insurance company usually, or an individual if he/she is also uninsured) following damage you cause to their property or body;
3. being prosecuted for failing to comply with local laws.

The obvious point being that holding insurance doesn't reduce the likelihood of having an accident, it merely eases your subsequent financial pain. Personally I carry a high level of insurance but only because I sleep better as a result, if the OP sleeps well while understanding the risks that seems OK to me.

However most activities tend to become more regulated as time passes and that's certainly the case in the EU so it pays to try to keep an eye on the various regulations that apply to cruisers here - Noonsite is a very good resource for this.

I think the OP was lucky not to have been asked for insurance in the French marina, I have used many marinas in the EU and several elsewhere in the last few years and have always needed to supply proof of insurance.

I'm sorry not to be able to point towards a source of insurance, but bearing in mind the number of US yachts in the Med it seems likely there is a good source somewhere. Perhaps getting in touch with some US skippers might yield results.

Also if, as you say, your objective is just to get a document that shows you are insured rather than actually be insured, you could perhaps complete an insurance application with a fairly casual regard to the facts.

Good luck.

Generally, France is the most relaxed what come to officials, Marinas have their own rules usually liability needed. Spain, the most tight as$ what comes to obeying laws, next one Italy..

[Rebalaje]

My broker:
info@segurosadell.com
+34 933 011 749
+34 610 400 040
They Work with different companies
Cheers.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Generally, France is the most relaxed what come to officials, Marinas have their own rules usually liability needed. Spain, the most tight as$ what comes to obeying laws, next one Italy..

Unless you fly a Red Duster.. then they're all over your ass like blow flies.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Farbrook

There seems to me to be an undertone in some of these replies that the OP has behaved badly, or even immorally. I disagree.

Anecdotally there appear to be very many yachtsmen sailing the globe without insurance and this has probably been the case since Ahab, so in terms of 'custom and practice' it seems highly morally defensible.

The risks of not holding insurance seem to me to be threefold:
1. the loss of your vessel in an accident which brings your sailing life to an end because you have insufficient money to replace it;
2. being chased by a third party (an insurance company usually, or an individual if he/she is also uninsured) following damage you cause to their property or body;
3. being prosecuted for failing to comply with local laws.

The obvious point being that holding insurance doesn't reduce the likelihood of having an accident, it merely eases your subsequent financial pain. Personally I carry a high level of insurance but only because I sleep better as a result, if the OP sleeps well while understanding the risks that seems OK to me.
.

There are a couple of points you seem to misunderstand here. The OP is not required to have hull insurance, his boat his risk, and there is nothing illegal or immoral about that. He is required to have liability insurance, that protects other people from damage caused by him or his boat. Just like in the USA you are required to have liability insurance on your automobile to use it on the public roads. Exactly the same situation.

Here is the standard explaination of the difference: if your boat burns to the waterline, your loss, your problem, not my concern. If you boat starts a fire than burns MY boat and 5 others in the marina I am guessing you don’t have the ability to cover those damages out of your pocket, so you are putting that risk on ME, and I have no say in the matter. That is why I prefer to stay at marinas that require proof of insurance even in places where the law does not require it. The people who claim they are “self insured” just have no idea how quickly they can cause damage that greatly exceeds all of their liquid assets. Basically if they drag anchor and damage another boat, or are involved in a collision, or spill oil or fuel, they are giving the middle finger to the injured parties.

I do consider it extremely bad behavior to visit a country with the expectation you are going to violate whatever rules you think are inconvenient to obey, and hope you get away with it. I guess it rises to the level of immorality. It certainly marks you as someone I consider untrustworthy. It violates one of the principles of good cruising behavior, “Leave a clean wake.” That does not just refer to your physical trash, but also to your behavior.

The solution is simple, if a country has rules you are unwilling to follow you just do not go there. If you have chosen to go somewhere and knowingly and deliberately ignore they rules of the people who live there, don’t be surprised if I experience a bit of schadenfreude if the authorities throw the book at you.