Project boat as first boat?

[cupofjoe]

I've been looking at buying a boat for over a year now as a liveaboard cruiser, but am very dissatisfied with the market for various reasons. While I could buy a boat in relatively good condition, I am also less willing to lately because I'm honestly just not ready to actually start living onboard right this moment.

I've started to consider the idea of getting a project boat in my local area to have something to work towards while I get ready for the transition to liveaboard life. I am trying to be realistic though about my limitations: time and money aren't the concern here, my skill and aptitude are. While I do have basic mechanical aptitude and training, I have never done boat work before, and I'm thinking this could also be too big of an undertaking depending on the state of the boat. If I get a project boat I would want to do as much of the work on it as possible myself, only seeking a contractor when absolutely necessary (like installing a mast/rigging for example).

How realistic is this or am I just fooling myself and should I stick to the non-project market?

[malbert73]

Every boat is a project. Don’t make it harder on yourself than it needs to be. Just buying a well maintained used boat and you will have plenty to occupy yourself.

[boatpoker]

Having done three of these projects ... it will take you 6 times longer and cost you 6 times more than you think ... if you work on it every waking minute.

In the end the boat will be worth half of what you spent on it.

[Kettlewell]

My suggestion is to purchase a small, inexpensive older boat first to get to know a lot more about boats in general. Before you decide to liveaboard get to know the lifestyle and what is involved in maintaining a boat. Even small boats are lots of work. The #1 reason people abandon cruising is the maintenance, and many people purchasing project boats never launch them. Some people do what you are proposing, but I would venture to guess that 9 out of 10 eventually abandon the project.

[mvweebles]

Even the pros greatly underestimate the time and money it takes to do work. Just look at how many people complain about how their boatyard bill increased compared to the estimate.

There are very few "projects boat" people who would do it again. And almost none who would recommend it someone. The cost is very high. Return on investment low. And amount of time spent with an unusable boat frustrating (not to mention the holding costs while the boat sits).

Odds are really stacked against you. Not impossible. But definitely not in your favor.

[psk125]

I went to work on our boat Thursday, to cut an inspection port in a partition so we could more easily look at our rudderpost. Not a huge project, or particularly difficult. Not including the time it took to gather all the tools up and load them in the car, or the travel time it took to get there, it took bout 4 hours to cut a 9"x9" hole in 3/4" plywood.

Why so long? First, all the tools had to go up the ladder, under the cover, and into the cockpit. Three or four trips. Then hooking up to the electricity in the yard entailed climbing back down the ladder with the extension cord and stretching it to the outlet several boats over. After that the location for the port needed to be mapped out so that hoses and wires already secured to the partition weren't in the way. This required climbing from the lazarette in the cockpit to the aft end of the quarter berth multiple times. Then the cut got started by creating a slot to fit a jigsaw blade. That was followed by learning that the electric jigsaw would not fit in the available space to make the cut on all four sides. Care also needed to be taken to avoid lifting the veneer on the inboard side of the partition. The cut was completed with a crosscut hand saw. When the piece was finally removed, it was cleanup time. Sweeping up all the sawdust, getting all the tools back into the car, retrieving and coiling the extension cord are not instantaneous events.
This description is intended to provide an example of how long it can take to actually do things on or to a boat. The spaces are awkward to get into, the systems are complicated and cannot interfere with one another, and unexpected problems have to be worked around. In a workshop, cutting a 9" square hole in a piece of plywood might take about ten or fifteen minutes. You might work faster or have better tools, but it's still going to take a lot longer than you first think.

[thomm225]

I have a Bristol 27.

Bought it in 2011 for $2,000 and have been sailing it ever since.

I cleaned out all the junk that was in the boat, painted the bottom , and started sailing it leaving the topside peeling paint alone for a few years. Photos from 2011 and 2024.

I washed and reused the running rigging at the time. The boat had been on the hard for 5 years.

The diesel failed after a month so I removed it and all it's accessories and replaced it with a new 5 HP 4 stroke 25" shaft outboard.

Have about $15,000 or so in it now.

I found the Bristol27.com site about the time I bought my bought.

The guy that runs the site is working on a project Bristol 27.

He has been at the project now for at least 12-15 years, and I don't believe the boat has been in the water yet.

https://www.bristol27.com/category/projects

[Kettlewell]

By the way, if you do choose a project boat the #1 consideration is where you will work on it, how much it will cost, how convenient it is to where you live, and how likely it will be to stay the way it is. The best option is if you have it on your own property where you live, and the neighbors will not object. Just be sure the town council/powers that be won't come around and tell you that what you are doing isn't allowed. If you have to travel to a boatyard, pay boatyard storage fees, and work around boatyard hours the project difficulty and costs increase tremendously.

[MicHughV]

Ha, love this topic.

As one that has built his own boat and seen countless other people tackle " fixer uppers" what you read here is factually true.

"fixer upper's" tend to be monumental tasks, as one must first undo something in order to fix, rebuild, replace, etc.

Right off the bat, finding a suitable place to tackle such a project is a problem.
Add in that you'll be spending a lot of $$$...or guilders in your case....to find, move, store a boat. This is all money that comes out of your pocket that has little to do with " rebuilding" a boat.

As Kettlewell opines..." 9 out of 10 eventually abandon the project. This is a realistic assessment, especially so, as you profess to have little skill and knowledge in this regard.

I don't want to throw a wet towel over your aspirations here, but a realistic assessment of your abilities, the tools you'll need, etc, etc. and the time and money involved are likely to be far more than you thought possible.

When I started building my boat, I had everything planned out to the last dime...or so I thought in both the time it would take and the money needed. I quickly came to learn that my estimates in both time and money were severely inadequate and adding up all my costs, were as pointed out above, around 6 times my original budget.

That being said, it was a lot of fun doing the project, and I did enjoy the " building" part and I learned a lot.

I don't know how old you are, but you'd need to factor in a good 3 years to see such a project to completion.

As advised above, seek out a used boat that will fit your needs and you'll be glad you did.

[TrentePieds]

Joe:

We all have to face that particular choice: Buy an operational boat and go sailing or buy a "fixer- upper" and chain yourself to the shore.

Only you can know which is your preference!

You say you are Floridian but live in Holland [that change of locale must have been one helluvaneyeopener :-)!] Among other things, that probably means that you have not the work background nor the many, many thousands of dollars' worth of tools you need to do a decent job of refurbishing a neglected sailboat - even a small one. That surmise is given credence by your statement that you would "farm out" the rigging work to a "professional".

So take this to heart: When you employ a professional to do a job of work for you, you MUST know enough about that particular job that you can do it yourself, for if you do not, you cannot supervise and monitor the professional, let alone evaluate the quality of his work. You hire "professionals" not to ameliorate ignorance but to be able to spend your time engaged in more lucrative work!

As an ex-pat you are unlikely to have shop space to do joiner work, and you simply cannot do quality joiner work aboard. You need a shoreside shop with the appropriate "grown up" machine tools. Trying to do it "on your lap" while living aboard is a sure path to dissatisfaction and to abandoning the project.

Enuff o' that!

You are implying that your funds are constrained. If so - PARTICULARLY if so! - find a boat that is operational, even if only just adequately so. Settle down to "growing" the bux to buy a better boat even if that prospect lies twenty years in the future.

And as a follow-up to that: Being "very dissatisfied with the market" really means no more than that you don't have the ready, unencumbered bux to satisfy your dream. Well, then - perhaps it's time for a shot of strong morning coffee :-)!

All the best to you, or as they say in the Netherlands: "Goed geluk!"

TrentePieds

[ShoreFun]

Run the numbers... I have...

In no case is a project boat a good deal. I would have the opinion that project boats are way less likely to ever be finished. Ya, you see people doing it, but how many fail.. take a look in the yards at what is sitting around. If you cant keep it in your yard it is going to cost you constant money. Plus finding a yard that will let you keep a fixer upper is likely getting harder. It going to cost you every month.

I say get a much lower cost trailer sailer to get out sailing. Save your money and learn about different boats in your price range. There are always deals the pop up where there is a great boat that needs to change hands quickly. Know enough to be able to move on one.

In the end, none of us can tell you what is best. It truely is what is in your wallet, resources and expectations. If you dont mind a crappy older boat always having issues you can get away cheap. If you want to spend more time on the water you need a newer nicer boat.

I come from antique car restoration. There are a 100 cars people thought they could restore for every car you see nicely restored at the car show. They can afford the $5000 rusty classic, but not the $30,000 it takes to restore it. So it sits...

[Kettlewell]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think a lot of people take on such an enormous project because they lust after a boat much bigger than one they can realistically afford. My advice to everyone is you don't need that big a boat to do a lot of cruising. I first lived aboard a small 26-footer, followed by several years aboard a 28-footer, then a 30-footer on which we sailed thousands of miles up and down the East Coast to the Bahamas and back. We lived aboard a 32-foot catamaran for 12 years straight, along with two children for quite a few years. My point being you can do a lot with a much smaller boat than I am guessing you desire. And, right now there are tons of capable older small boats on the market for peanuts. They will require plenty of work to fix up, but will allow you to get going now to learn tons more about what you really want in a boat.

[gonesail]

find a boat that someone else has fixed up .. otherwise save your money and keep looking .. until you can. good luck.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Cruisers are a odd bunch, smarts enough to sail across the sea and have the $$ to buy the boat and live the life

But common sense is very low, they are very trusting and have very child like views on the lower element of humanity

I have never sailed without some decent weapons on board, I’m just not really good at being a victim

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

I've been looking at buying a boat for over a year now as a liveaboard cruiser, but am very dissatisfied with the market for various reasons. While I could buy a boat in relatively good condition, I am also less willing to lately because I'm honestly just not ready to actually start living onboard right this moment.

I've started to consider the idea of getting a project boat in my local area to have something to work towards while I get ready for the transition to liveaboard life. I am trying to be realistic though about my limitations: time and money aren't the concern here, my skill and aptitude are. While I do have basic mechanical aptitude and training, I have never done boat work before, and I'm thinking this could also be too big of an undertaking depending on the state of the boat. If I get a project boat I would want to do as much of the work on it as possible myself, only seeking a contractor when absolutely necessary (like installing a mast/rigging for example).

How realistic is this or am I just fooling myself and should I stick to the non-project market?

1st.. What size do you consider a suitable liveaboard.. whilst I consider a suitable 32ftr more than adequate many Americans consider <40ft camping and <45ft barely adequate..
Personally I would look for a boat in Holland in the 30-36ft range like a Contest with sound hull, decks and engine, the rigging is easy enough to do yourself one shroud at a time using compression fittings with plenty of online video tuition.
Sails can be upgraded one at a time while you use the old ones as your learning tools.
Practice/learn on the Dutch sheltered waters till you've perfected techniques and manouveres and liveaboard at a marina getting your practice at weekends if still working.. spend your evenings familiarising yourself with navigation, the internal workings of the boat (plumbing, elecs etc) and basic engine maintainance.
A couple of examples below..

https://www.scanboat.com/en/boat-mar...ketch-17469665

https://www.scanboat.com/en/boat-mar...31-ht-17429477

[MicHughV]

My first " project " prior to building my boat was to build a wood workshop to house my tools, etc.
Prior to this time, I barely knew which end of a screwdriver to hold, and had never built anything of substance, but I set to it.

Using plywood, 2x4's, etc, I managed to "construct a 12'x12" shop. I use the term "construct" loosely here.

Shortly after I had "completed" my workshop, a rain storm blew thru' the neighborhood during the night.
I awoke the next morning to see my Workshop laying in tatters on the ground and the reality of my situation quickly dawned on me.

But being a naturally stubborn person, I kept at it....