Life Expectancy for Sails

[Yojimbo]

Greetings-

My question is directed to active, year round cruisers sailing monohulls in the 33'-45' range +/-, doing major passages across oceans that may or may not include higher latitudes. Looking to get a sense of longevity of the sails assuming: New suit from either a well respected loft or alternatively I have heard there are shops that sell partially constructed sails that can be finished by the owner. Also assuming access to a good sewing machine for repairs carried aboard.
Current opinions and experience appreciated as I read through archived threads on the subject. Any recommendations for good texts on the subject of sail repair, sewing machine operation also much appreciated.

TIA

[BillKny]

I start almost all my posts with the same comment: IT DEPENDS.

A set of dacron cruising sails, that are well made and well cared for can still be useable after 50,000 miles or 10 years (whichever comes first.)

BUT...

After half that time, they will likely be rather shapeless rags that are very inefficient at moving the boat. Some people care, some do not. The slow deterioration in performance is probably not going to be noticed by the average sailor. Then when finally forced to buy new sails, the sudden improvement is likely to be a watershed moment.

This lifespan assumption assumes that the sails are taken down and carefully looked over at least once a year and every worn seam and chafe point attended to. That's called "maintenance." If you wait until the seam tears to have it attended to , your sails will die an early death, and suck your pocketbook dry. "Pay me now, or pay me later!"

It's a bit of a trite statement, but close to true, that a full set of new sails for a boat cost about as much as a new engine, and need to be replaced twice as often.

As far as texts on sail building and maintenance you can not do better than A Sailmakers Apprentice. Truly a classic.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo

Greetings-

My question is directed to active, year round cruisers sailing monohulls in the 33'-45' range +/-, doing major passages across oceans that may or may not include higher latitudes. Looking to get a sense of longevity of the sails assuming: New suit from either a well respected loft or alternatively I have heard there are shops that sell partially constructed sails that can be finished by the owner. Also assuming access to a good sewing machine for repairs carried aboard.
Current opinions and experience appreciated as I read through archived threads on the subject. Any recommendations for good texts on the subject of sail repair, sewing machine operation also much appreciated.

TIA

We have lived on and actively cruised our 43' sloop for 35 years. Most of that was in the Tropics. During this time we completed a circumnavigation.

We have used Dacron working sails and nylon spinnakers. We have also carried, and used for racing, a full set of racing quality sails including high end laminated membrane sails.

We've bought nearly all of our sails from Asian sail lofts, paying roughly 30% of what the biggest International lofts charge. (Yes, 30%)

Cruising Sails:
We started with old racing sails and have bought two sets more of Dacron cruising sails which are still in good servicable shape now. So I have to say that Dacron crusing sails can be expected to last at least 10 years, probably longer. We always take the sails down and bag them and store them below decks when not in use. We carry a good sail making sewing machine and plenty of supplies. We do our own repairs. We are careful not to allow our sails to flog for any reason or any length of time. We find that the sail shapes of these Dacron sails do NOT apprecably lose shape over the life of the sail. We wouldn't expect to win if we raced with them but for crusing they are fine and we are still very fast.

Racing Sails:We carry a full set of racing sails which includes two membrane mainsails, three jibs including a membrane genoa, and five racing spinnakers. These sails are used around 20 times per year and we are on our third set but there were several yaers when we did not race. I give these sails about 6 years service. They were all made in Asian lofts to my design specification. They cost less than 30% of sails from major lofts.

We take great care of our sails and we stored them onboard when we cruised around the world (at that time 12 sails) all below decks and all stowed properly, not on the cabin sole or bunks.

We left Seattle with a large supply of repair material and supplies, for sails and canvas, and we've supplanted it as needed over the years but we still have much of it. It comes in handy, and we have no hesitation in repairing a sail on passage.

[Yojimbo]

Very helpful guidelines and info. Thank you both. Fortunately I tend to enjoy the maintenance of the tools and equipment I play and work with and it sounds like that will be an advantage and Wingsail, I can only assume with your experience and use of the sails the Asian lofts are producing a sail of equal quality and better economy. I'll need to look into that further. Thanks again.

[mvweebles]

Quantum Sails estimates 3500-4000 hours of use. Steve Dashew has stated 3200 hours. Varies widely based on many factors, but those are two reliable estimates

https://www.quantumsails.com/en/reso...-do-sails-last

[peter loveridge]

just replacing my RF genoa. It was made in 1991. 20k+ miles on it. Mainsail is 15 years old, still in great shape. Some thoughts. Get one step up heavier than the sailmaker recommends. Think twice about fully battened mains. Mine has no battens at all. And, yes, I know this degrades performance a little, but it is only a little if you're not racing and you gain in longevity and ease of handling

[Joli]

We've done about 20k in the past two years with hydranet. So far so good, hope to get anther 5~10k from them also hoping to do less miles.

[Yojimbo]

Peter,

What is the advantage of no battens?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by BillKny

. . . It's a bit of a trite statement, but close to true, that a full set of new sails for a boat cost about as much as a new engine, and need to be replaced twice as often.. . .

I don't know why you think that's trite. That's actually a very good rule of thumb. Twice or maybe three times as often. And in my case, the new sails cost about twice what a repower would have cost.



On professionally crewed sailing yachts, it's usually the case that the crew are not allowed to use the sails when repositioning the boat without owner or guests on board. That's because cost per mile in sails is greater than the cost per mile for fuel and engine hours.


That is, unless you don't mine sailing with shapeless rags, and keep Dacron sails up for 20,000, 30,000 or however many miles.


Good sails are the best money you can spend on your boat. Dacron sails are cheaper but they start losing their shape the first time you hoist them. The last generation of laminate sails last just as long as woven sails (at least woven sails not kept beyond the totally bagged out stage), but they keep their like new shape until the end of their lives.

[peter loveridge]

batten pockets are the most common repair done by sailmakers. And, with no battens you dont have to go head to wind to haul up unless its blowing hard, and you can get it down on any point of sail, no matter what. Lazy jacks help, but are not essential

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by BillKny

... As far as texts on sail building and maintenance you can not do better than A Sailmakers Apprentice. Truly a classic.

You’ve received some excellent advice, so far.
In addition to "A Sailmakers Apprentice”, I can recommend Sailrite, which offers a lot of free, on-line information:
➥ https://www.sailrite.com/How-To-Proj...jects-and-Tips
➥ https://www.sailrite.com/How-To-Proj...arine-Projects
➥ https://www.fabric-calculator.com/MainMenu.aspx
➥ https://www.sailrite.com/How-To-Proj...ides/Sail-Data

[Yojimbo]

All,

Excellent advice and sources to look into, thanks for the instruction. Very curious about the no batten perspective Peter and will investigate that further as well. Just a newly minted ASA 103 newbie here imploding over the ocean of information and experience needed for a simple day sail, both excited and challenged by the process. After getting checked out on a club boat- 27' Catalina- and one practice outing with a fellow student in no wind to speak of, I did my first day sail on Sunday. 12-15 knot winds, 1-2' swells, whitecaps and my crew of one other with no sailing experience at the tiller while I raised the main [only] I managed to get us out and back without the need for any distress calls although getting the main back down and tied off before heading to the marina was less than pretty. Stress levels never rose to a state of panic but certainly hovered over the far edges of acute attention. Good initial experience with a few key lessons learned. I might get the hang of this eventually but it's a significant step up from the bit of dingy sailing of my distant past. Fortunately I am both determined and curious. Thanks again.