Leaking Jib Car Track?

[Dockhead]

I have been dogged this year with my first cabin leak

One of the several really good things about my boat is that other than rainwater down the mast, she has been absolutely water tight, without a drip from anywhere. Well, those happy days are over

The water has been coming in on the port side in the galley. It has been dripping (or even flowing) through the headliner and down the cabinets in the galley near the aft bulkhead. The leak is of course extremely destructive, and if it leads to mold forming behind joinery and headlining, can even essentially ruin the boat.

I at first suspected the coach roof window directly above this spot, and have taped this up and retaped it in order to attempt to stop the leak. Nothing has helped.

I had shipwright guys on board re-doing my blade jib twing anchors (properly through-bolting them at last), and had them help me think about this. We ripped out the headliner and part of the cabinetry to get a better look at the source of the leak. They couldn't find any obvious source. My jib car tracks run right over this spot, but they look soundly bedded.

After they left, I bought some really good waterproof tape and some plastic sheeting, and double-sealed the suspect window. Sealed every tiniest gap, then covered the whole thing with plastic sheeting and sealed that up. Then I got the hose out and tested it again -- and could clearly see that no water was getting under the plastic sheeting. So the window is now officially declared innocent; case dismissed.

Then I tried the hose on the jib car track. With the headlining gone, the leak starts and stops immediately (rather than building up over time and then flowing out), and so now finally I can clearly see that the leak is coming from the jib track, or from the deck nearby.

I can now reach some of the fixing bolts -- the studs are beefy 10mm using nuts taking a 17mm wrench, and there are at least 35 of them, a number of them hidden behind cabinetry. The ones in the immediate area of the leak -- were quite loose. I've tightened them, but the leak is not stopped.

The water which leaks through is colored brown. I have no idea why.


So now what to do? Do I need to remove it and re-bed it? This will be a major operation requiring destruction of some cabinetry. Or can I just tighten the nuts I can reach, and perhaps caulk around the edge of the track?

Why would the bedding have failed? The boat is only 15 years old and nothing like this has ever happened before. All of the caulking and bedding, including the teak deck by the way, is all flexible and performing well.


All advice gratefully received.

[SailRedemption]

I just did one of ours.. 54 bolts. We used Bed-It butyl tape for the sealant. It was invasive but needed to get done, won't do the other one until it starts to leak. Took apart and cleaned the jib and staysail cars up too when it was off.

You should just rebed it and get it over with, you already have some access for it made so just continue. To answer your last question, sometimes things just happen, kind of sucks.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Then I tried the hose on the jib car track. With the headlining gone, the leak starts and stops immediately (rather than building up over time and then flowing out), and so now finally I can clearly see that the leak is coming from the jib track, or from the deck nearby.

Sorry for your problems.

The first step is to reliably identify where the leak is occurring. Even if you are almost certain it worth double checking as it is quite common to get this wrong, or for multiple leak points to be present.

A common trick is tape up all the conventional openings such as the dorades and then slightly pressurise the interior. A leaf blower through the hatch opening (with the rest of the gap taped shut) seems the most common weapon of choice.

Then spread the deck windows etc with soapy water and watch for bubbles.

Some fibreglass offshore boats do this as a routine check every year or so to identify problems before they cause water in the core.

As SailRedemption has indicated Butyl tape seems the best rebedding compound.
This link shows how to do it right (there is lots of other good information on the site):

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

[Dockhead]

Thanks to everyone for all the good information.

I guess I've got no choice but to rip out cabinets and remove and rebed the track. Ick! I don't really understand how to deal with the cabinets -- joinery is not one of my skills. I'm afraid I'm going to have to get professional help or at least advice. Based on what I've seen them doing on my jib twings, which also required some cabinet surgery, they cut holes with a Fein tool and then they make teak plates to cover them back up again. Double ick! But besides that, I will need to take one cabinet apart, and I don't quite know how to do it without destroying it. Triple ick!

And I appreciate the necessity of being absolutely sure. I don't think it's realistic for me to pressurize the interior (I have eight huge dorades and a multitude of blower vents and other things, and besides I don't have a leaf blower), but I think I can tape up the edges of the track and do another hose test. I'll do that, in fact, this afternoon.

Before doing that, I'm going to finish tightening all the bolts I can get to -- maybe drill a couple of holes for more access -- and cross my fingers that maybe the bedding is still ok but the track is just loose.

One can always hope, eh?

[Sailmonkey]

I've noticed over time certain tube based liquid applied bedding compounds lose their bond with aluminum and then leak. No amount of tightening will fix this for long......pull the track and fix it. You'll sleep easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Tetepare]

Bedding is a job that just has to get done, period. It is a brutal job. I had to do ONE stanchion this year and it took FOUR HOURS!





The brown liquid is probably picking up color from the wood in the deck.

[SailRedemption]

Yea, the brown color is the oils in the wood. Nasty stuff, stains too.

[Dockhead]

Thanks for all the input.

I am leaving on Sunday for a long business trip to China and Finland, so won't be able to do this before I leave.

So I'm going to tighten it up as best as I can, then repeat the hose test.

If it's still leaking, I'll tape up the edges.

I sure don't want to leave the boat for a few weeks, with this leak going on. It's actually the first time the boat will have been uninhabited since last April.

[Stu Jackson]

Dockhead, I am a COMPLETE dunderhead when it comes to wood. But, I have always thought that if they put it together, there's gotta be a way to take it apart.

While it may not be obvious to you, and your helpers might well have been just as challenged about wood so they cut instead of dismantled, it might be worth your while to find a woodworker to help disassembly instead of destruction.

Good luck.

And yes, if you read Maine Sail's website, he spent the valuable time finding the best butyl tape for boats. It is critical that you do NOT just buy some "other" butyl tape, they ain't all made the same. I have used a full roll of his stuff over the years, and have another for the future. It is superior. I still have a small tiny piece stuck to the elbow of one of my work sweaters and I still get my elbow stuck on my chair while watching TV!!!

[Shala]

good day dockhead
i had the same problem a couple of years ago and, as some of the previous reply have stated, butyl tape was the solution. i had to remove a good portion of the cabin interior to get to all of the bolts. the galley portion was an insert and was very difficult to get out. i almost cut it but with some wiggling and determination it finally came out. remember to slightly countersink the holes so that the butyl will squish into the holes as the bolts are tightened. also i did several rounds of tightening over a couple day period so that the excess butyl will squeeze out and the rail seated completely. also probably a good idea to check the holes to see if the water has started any rot in the core before rebedding. it was a big job but the leak stopped and the galley is once again dry. i know the starboard side is gonna have to be done eventually too but so far it has not leaked and i will address it when it starts.
good luck

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

but I think I can tape up the edges of the track and do another hose test.

Make sure you really figure out the source. Sounds like with the tests you've done, it's already pretty clear it's not a slow migration in the core from somewhere else.

What you definitely don't want is to inadvertently leave the water entry point open while closing off where it's draining. Then it'll look fixed but water will be attacking the core.

This is one of the best things about butyl IMHO - its easy to do your bedding up top without it getting a bunch of goo down below where you /don't/ want a seal.

[uncle stinkybob]

I'll be doing the same job soon. I found this informative, looks like a pain in the rear. but it will be great fun wrapping little strips of buytl tape around how many bolts? https://youtu.be/IQlXZDJEthQ Not turning the bolts is critical, turn nuts only or the seal is ruined.

[Cheechako]

If you want to avoid ripping out cabinets etc you can identify which are leaking, remove them, clean and dry out the holes etc and rebed those bolts. This will often work. Not a perfect solution, but if you really have to rip out some interior to fix this worth a shot. I'd use 5200 for this type of attempt.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I'd use 5200 for this type of attempt.

Dockhead, please do NOT do this.

5200 is SATAN'S GLUE and should be used only on hull to deck joints or something you NEVER ever want to remove.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Dockhead, please do NOT do this.

5200 is SATAN'S GLUE and should be used only on hull to deck joints or something you NEVER ever want to remove.

Yes, I agree....if your goal is to take it apart in the future then don't use 5200.
If your goal is to never take it apart in the future..... USE IT!