Visit our Popular Forums

DamonK · 24-06-2021, 14:37

Hi all!
Long time listener, fire time caller!
I'm on the hunt for my first "significant" boat purchase and found one the fits pretty much every spec I've been looking for, a 1983 hunter 36.

On my inspection I saw one big potential issue, but don't know enough from a structural analysis standpoint to know what's going on here.

It looks like there might be deck sag, but the compression post appears to be pushing UP rather than collapsing as I know can happen.

My next step I plan to contract a pre-purchase survey, but wondering if there are any experienced readers who know enough about this symptom to say its a go/no go for even a survey (and it's expense).

Photos attached and thank you all for any insights!

DK

DamonK · 24-06-2021, 17:13

Wanted to add one more pic b/c I may be starting to identify the issue. Is this deck sag due to rotten deck and the post is effectively "circus tenting" the deck up around the mast step / compression post?

Creedence · 24-06-2021, 17:22

That’s not an insignificant issue. It could be (probable given its age) that compromised core is playing some role there. It could also be a rigging tension issue. Likely a combination of the two.

I guess it really depends on what kind of deal you’re getting and what your intended use for it is. If it’s a really great deal, meets all your other needs, and is going to spend its days as a light day sailor/ occasional overnight anchor deal in inland and coastal waters, it could be okay. But if you envision long term ownership and overnight/offshore/distance sailing, expect a meaningful investment being necessary to address that.

If there are similar cracks on top of the deck, water intrusion is ongoing and the deck compromise will continue to spread. It won’t sink the boat, and it would be fine puttering about in a bay for day sails, but it’s a high 4-figure expense (if not in the 10s of thousands).

boatpoker · 24-06-2021, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamonK

Wanted to add one more pic b/c I may be starting to identify the issue. Is this deck sag due to rotten deck and the post is effectively "circus tenting" the deck up around the mast step / compression post?

Yes ! You are correct. That will get dramatically worse if you sail the boat often and will cost a small fortune to repair. If you attempt repair it will also cost you an entire season of sailing. Do not buy.

A few links to help you in your search.
Moisture Meter Mythology
Marine Survey 101
Balsa Core = Compost

Celestialsailor · 24-06-2021, 20:25

I have/had a similar failure on my WS28. There is a "heel" under the sole that extends to the hull/keel area. First problem is the factory used Red Oak rather than White Oak. It was hastily crafted out of 2 vertical pieces and since the hull is an irregular shape and the sole flat, it was cut "close enough" and jammed in under the sole and a few pieces of glass cloth and resin. I built an upper and lower White Oak shoe and placed them in with epoxy shmoo. then made a series of verticals and epoxied them in. Now there were no voids. Then I used 1708 and faired the whole thing in. Like you, it left me with a few cracks to repair.

This type of failure is not uncommon. I'm looking at an Allied Princess 36 that has the same thing going on. When ever I see a door to the head sticking because of misalignment, the heel is usually the cause.

CarlF · 24-06-2021, 20:42

Yea. That looks bad.

Think of the forces going on when sailing. The mast force is straight down. The shrouds are pulling up - squeezing the the hull in towards the mast - a bit like a bow and arrow. The deck and it's cross structure is there to keep the hull from coming in - but a weak deck or cross beam will allow the deck to bow, sag, or buckle.

chrisr · 24-06-2021, 21:54

walk away, unless the price is cheap enough to justify the repair AND you like having your boat torn to pieces for a couple of months

cheers,

Celestialsailor · 25-06-2021, 00:14

My mistake...I was seeing things upside down I guess. My issue was with the sole to hull support...not the deck. A pain repair never the less.

DamonK · 25-06-2021, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creedence

That’s not an insignificant issue. It could be (probable given its age) that compromised core is playing some role there. It could also be a rigging tension issue. Likely a combination of the two.

I guess it really depends on what kind of deal you’re getting and what your intended use for it is. If it’s a really great deal, meets all your other needs, and is going to spend its days as a light day sailor/ occasional overnight anchor deal in inland and coastal waters, it could be okay. But if you envision long term ownership and overnight/offshore/distance sailing, expect a meaningful investment being necessary to address that.

If there are similar cracks on top of the deck, water intrusion is ongoing and the deck compromise will continue to spread. It won’t sink the boat, and it would be fine puttering about in a bay for day sails, but it’s a high 4-figure expense (if not in the 10s of thousands).

Appreciate the insight! I hadn't thought about the compound forces fof rigging pulling up (potentially bending the deck up) even as it's trying to sag down.

Thank you!

DamonK · 25-06-2021, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlF

Yea. That looks bad.

Think of the forces going on when sailing. The mast force is straight down. The shrouds are pulling up - squeezing the the hull in towards the mast - a bit like a bow and arrow. The deck and it's cross structure is there to keep the hull from coming in - but a weak deck or cross beam will allow the deck to bow, sag, or buckle.

Same as Credence's thogught, I hadn't considered the combinaiton of forces working together-yet-separately to pull itself apart.

Many thanks!

DamonK · 25-06-2021, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Yes ! You are correct. That will get dramatically worse if you sail the boat often and will cost a small fortune to repair. If you attempt repair it will also cost you an entire season of sailing. Do not buy.

A few links to help you in your search.
Moisture Meter Mythology
Marine Survey 101
Balsa Core = Compost

LOVE those articles, and I've been pouring over them as my search continues... Thanks for the share!

MicHughV · 25-06-2021, 10:07

the compression load on a mast can be measured in 1,000's of pounds....so that is what you have to deal with..

I see problems....fixable ???......I dunno....why do these issues appear in the first place...obviously a problem somewhere...I'm sure this boat was listed at a good price....and I can see why.....

Yep, a survey will likely run around $1,000....keep lookin'....