8 turns lock to lock - help me reduce that

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Now that's an idea I hadn't though of. Would the ram need to be relocated to maintain steering geometry?

Be careful here because you are increasing the load on the ramif you do that.

Typically the steering system companies specify the length of the tiller.

That’s intimately tied with the capacity of the ram and the dimensions of the boat and rudder. It’s a cohesive system.

[Cheechako]

I would just change out the steering pump. Calculate the ram volume and pumps are sold with displacement specified. You can calculate how many turns and get it right.
Or with your ram volume known, I imagine someone at the pump makers in tech support will do it for you.

[pressuredrop]

Ran a boat with a similar setup.

64' Motorsailor schooner, kobelt hydraulic steering, variable displacement pump, you could turn a dial on the pump to make it easier to turn the wheel, but then it would take more turns. At maximum displacement (minimum turns) it was still 7 turns lock to lock, docking was a work out... It is what it is I think....

[captstu]

Had the same problem - because my steering was "light" under all conditions, I changed the helm pump to one rated at 3.5 turns lock-to-lock. Significant improvement.

But, remember, the force required goes up as the turns go down - mine now takes over twice the force - still nearly nothing - but your conditions may be different.

It also depends on the age of the helm pump. Mine was 20+ years old so it was rebuild or replace - not terribly more $$$ to replace and much less work.

Your mechanical advantage issues may be different - but the result is the same if you change the chain drive ratios, Your effort will go up as your turns go down.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by captstu

Had the same problem - because my steering was "light" under all conditions, I changed the helm pump to one rated at 3.5 turns lock-to-lock. Significant improvement.

But, remember, the force required goes up as the turns go down - mine now takes over twice the force - still nearly nothing - but your conditions may be different.

It also depends on the age of the helm pump. Mine was 20+ years old so it was rebuild or replace - not terribly more $$$ to replace and much less work.

Your mechanical advantage issues may be different - but the result is the same if you change the chain drive ratios, Your effort will go up as your turns go down.

Mine is pretty light under most conditions, the hardest time I've had turning it was when I was run aground and the current was pushing against the rudder. Turning against the current took some effort.

How did you know yours needed to be replaced? I have a weird issue with my steering, in that there is about 4" of play side to side before I feel resistance. At first I thought this was the pump (perhaps the vanes getting worn out), but after removing the pump and rotating it with the chain off I can't seem to reproduce it.

[MVDarlin]

Hmm. My head pump located at the wheel has a knob that adjusts the turn rate.

[motion30]

Just be aware whatever you do to reduce the turns lock to lock will result in an increase effort to turn the wheel. Hopefully you will find the balance you need

[SuW]

When we bought a boat with hydraulic steering we fitted a rudder position indicator. It helped a lot.

[MWhite]

Laughing out loud. I opened this thread because, hey, we have the same issue with our boat and thought I’d get some ideas. Guess what boat we sail? Olympic Adventure 47. And yeah, going into a tight marina is a f&^king nightmare. We had our steering pump and entire system rebuilt and now it’s stiffer, but I actually miss how easy the wheel was to turn before, even though it needed to be rebuilt. At least the wheel was easier to turn before. We have a rudder indicator on our autopilot that shows rudder position and this helps loads when getting off the dock. Yeah, just pulsing the engine with tiny bursts is the only way in reverse or you really get that prop walk. I can’t wait to NOT be in a marina. And I would love to have the money for a bow thruster. That would make me sleep better at night.

Edited to say that we also had that 4” of play on the wheel before. I understand that ours is now stiffer because of the new seals and I look forward to wearing those a bit so it’s easier.

[howardatviking]

On my last boat the steering pump had a screw to adjust the oil flow rate and thus the number of turns from lock to lock. Hope this may help

[Russ]

Have exact same situation
Suicide knob solves it easily
Also on my boat I always back in to a slip
The only way to back straight is with rudder hard to starboard
It is a learning curve and yes a PIA but for my 55,000 lb reel cutter it works
Russ

[motion30]

There may be another solution if you are willing to buy a new helm. Teleaflex makes a helm pump called the Capilano it is adjustable on the dash. It is a high quality heavy duty piece used in some construction equipment and of course boats. There's a knob right under the steering wheel you can turn to change the displacement of the helm you know within the parameters. Last time I checked there were two different sizes

[Bill_Giles]

Two things:
!. It couldn’t be that the ‘strange bronze rod’ is some sort of gear change?
2. Reducing the ratio could make the wheel hard to handle when in reverse.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by MWhite

Laughing out loud. I opened this thread because, hey, we have the same issue with our boat and thought I’d get some ideas. Guess what boat we sail? Olympic Adventure 47. And yeah, going into a tight marina is a f&^king nightmare. We had our steering pump and entire system rebuilt and now it’s stiffer, but I actually miss how easy the wheel was to turn before, even though it needed to be rebuilt. At least the wheel was easier to turn before. We have a rudder indicator on our autopilot that shows rudder position and this helps loads when getting off the dock. Yeah, just pulsing the engine with tiny bursts is the only way in reverse or you really get that prop walk. I can’t wait to NOT be in a marina. And I would love to have the money for a bow thruster. That would make me sleep better at night.

Edited to say that we also had that 4” of play on the wheel before. I understand that ours is now stiffer because of the new seals and I look forward to wearing those a bit so it’s easier.

Melissa, it's Mike from Gromit!

You had your existing pump rebuilt or did you get a new one? Are you 8 turns as well?

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by motion30

There may be another solution if you are willing to buy a new helm. Teleaflex makes a helm pump called the Capilano it is adjustable on the dash. It is a high quality heavy duty piece used in some construction equipment and of course boats. There's a knob right under the steering wheel you can turn to change the displacement of the helm you know within the parameters. Last time I checked there were two different sizes

I will look into that, adjustable would certainly would make it easier to dial it in just right, I'd hate to get a new pump only to have it be too much, or not enough.

It looks like those pumps are designed for powerboats, where the pump is directly behind the wheel and thus the handle can be easily accessed on the fly.

I just need to find out what displacement my pump is (there's no label or model number on it).