U.S.A. gasoline CAUTION 2022-06/09

[rslifkin]

The US using mostly corn as a source of ethanol is very non-optimal. From an environmental perspective, etc. it's not a great source of ethanol as fuel. Sugar cane and certain other plants are much better sources (far less input energy and water required to produce a gallon of ethanol). But the US doesn't have those in huge quantities like we do with corn. And as was pointed out, there's a huge political lobby to keep corn farmers busy vs finding other sources of ethanol.

In terms of emissions, ethanol isn't a magic bullet. However, oxygenated gasoline (adding ethanol being one method of oxygenation) does burn cleaner, so even if you're burning more of the stuff (and therefore producing more CO2), it does clean up some of the other emissions a bit. For the most part, the use of ethanol in the US became widespread after MTBE (another oxygenate) was phased out due to groundwater contamination issues (around 2004). It was pretty rare to see ethanol in gasoline prior to that in most of the US.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Chotu

All of the problems from ethanol happen in the carburetor. An incredibly minuscule proportion happen elsewhere. If you do have some kind of problem from ethanol in your fuel line or whatever, that’s what your fuel filter is for. It keeps any of that crud out that is not certified to go through your system.

Fuel injected everything just works all the time. There is no doubt about it. Just think of what cars used to be like when they had carburetors versus what they were like once fuel injection got put in them. Night and day. Vapor lock? Etc., gone.

Even gasoline with some water in it is no problem for fuel injection. It goes right through.

You guys can disbelieve this all you want, you can argue about it all you want. I’ll just keep on cruising around on my motorcycle, and having my outboards all work without ever needing fuel system work or maintenance. Without having to clean a carb. Without having to pull a starter cord until I’m about to pass out.

You don’t have to listen, but if you do, your life will be easy and carefree like mine now is.

I have four fuel injected small engines now. Three of them are outboards. They run flawlessly at all times on ethanol gas and everything. They start first pull. Or in the case of two of them, the instant you turn the key. Just like a Japanese car. Incidentally those are fuel injected as well.

Make no mistake. Fuel injected engines are the way to get rid of all of your troubles. They just run and run and run.

I dunno. My fuel injected Suzuki had a wrecked fuel pump due to rusted metal parts inside. I can't exclude that the prior owner got saltwater into the tank - but it seems to me that oxidation to things other than the carb is an issue.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by lestersails

I dunno. My fuel injected Suzuki had a wrecked fuel pump due to rusted metal parts inside. I can't exclude that the prior owner got saltwater into the tank - but it seems to me that oxidation to things other than the carb is an issue.

Unless it was a salt water exposure I'd chalk that one up to inadequate material selection from the manufacturer. In my mind, if fuel system parts are corroding away with exposure to any commonly available fuel, it's the manufacturer at fault, not the fuel.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

...If ethanol added to gasoline was intended to reduce emissions, it is not accomplishing such a goal...

My assumption is that ethanol was added to gasoline by lobbyists to increase Archer Daniels Midland's profits.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

Ethanol is less energy-dense than gasoline so there’s more energy in a gallon of gas than there is in a gallon of ethanol. In general, ethanol has about 33 percent less energy than pure gasoline. So, the more ethanol in the fuel, the worse the fuel economy you’re going to get. Gasoline with 10 percent ethanol yields about 3 percent less fuel economy than straight gas. Ethanol is more prone to evaporation than gasoline, so some of it will be lost to the air more quickly than gasoline, especially in hot weather.



If ethanol added to gasoline was intended to reduce emissions, it is not accomplishing such a goal. Plus the are those nasty effects ethanol has on engines and fuel systems.

Ethanol is generally made from corn, crop waste, wood chips, or sugarcane. Much of the biomass used to make ethanol is grown in vote critical states. Iowa, for example, can trace $5 billion in the state’s economy and 47,000 jobs directly to corn-based ethanol. Until this year, virtually every presidential candidate to win the Iowa caucuses since 1980 had pledged to support the continued mandate for ethanol addition to gasoline.



The cause of the ethanol problem has nothing to do with reducing pollution. It is for other reasons that are clear to see once the facts are known.

Love everything you say except the absolutes with the volatility of ethanol compared to gasoline. Ethanols vapor pressure is 44mmHg were gasoline VP is up to 300mmHg. Yes, it has a range of 38-300 being a mixture but it is well accepted that the upper levels are observed due to the topic at hand. Gasoline is very much more volatile (evaporates readily) than ethanol. Furthermore, gasoline flashpoint is -44F whereas ethanol is 55f supporting the comparison of vapor production of the products.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Chotu

They are talking about this all over the Internet right now with all sorts of engines.

Everybody is scared.

I don’t feel too worried about it. Aside from the fuel injection keeping most of the problems at bay, the fuel lines are really the issue. And since we went from 0% to 10% without all that much trouble, I don’t think going up another 5% is going to really cause much issue. At least nothing to stress out about. Because all of the fuel lines are currently alcohol resistant.

I think the bottom line here is if you currently can handle 10% ethanol, you’re going to be able to handle 15%. It’s those people who are handling 0% right now that are going to have the trouble.

And I know there are a lot of places where you can’t get any ethanol free gas at the dock. It doesn’t exist. All of New York for instance.

As you note, ethanol-free is difficult to come by in many places. My opinion, we should eat food, not burn it. The life cycle for ethanol is a net negative if you include the fertilizer reformed from petroleum to make ammonia and the transport and farming costs. The distillation process is also a serious consumer of BTUs. I believe the US is the only place dumb enough to be doing this.

Many of us have old motors including chain saws, trimmers, outboards etc that pre-date the corrupted fuel. Most of these have parts that are not available in ethanol resistant materials. I have heard politicians say it’s time we discarded all of this functional, running machinery for new stuff. Pure political virtue signaling. This is energy and ecologically stupid. Add to this that most of the replacement machines come from China, making it US trade stupid. We are still running a 25 year old Mercury 15 and will continue to do so as long as it starts first pull and runs all day. (Caribbean, no ethanol)

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

As you note, ethanol-free is difficult to come by in many places. My opinion, we should eat food, not burn it. The life cycle for ethanol is a net negative if you include the fertilizer reformed from petroleum to make ammonia and the transport and farming costs. The distillation process is also a serious consumer of BTUs. I believe the US is the only place dumb enough to be doing this.

Many of us have old motors including chain saws, trimmers, outboards etc that pre-date the corrupted fuel. Most of these have parts that are not available in ethanol resistant materials. I have heard politicians say it’s time we discarded all of this functional, running machinery for new stuff. Pure political virtue signaling. This is energy and ecologically stupid. Add to this that most of the replacement machines come from China, making it US trade stupid. We are still running a 25 year old Mercury 15 and will continue to do so as long as it starts first pull and runs all day. (Caribbean, no ethanol)

Agree. At some point, the water usage impact to produce it will out weight (if it hasn't already) the benefits of using it.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

... If ethanol added to gasoline was intended to reduce emissions, it is not accomplishing such a goal. Plus the are those nasty effects ethanol has on engines and fuel systems.

Ethanol is generally made from corn, crop waste, wood chips, or sugarcane. Much of the biomass used to make ethanol is grown in vote critical states. Iowa, for example, can trace $5 billion in the state’s economy and 47,000 jobs directly to corn-based ethanol. Until this year, virtually every presidential candidate to win the Iowa caucuses since 1980 had pledged to support the continued mandate for ethanol addition to gasoline.

The cause of the ethanol problem has nothing to do with reducing pollution. It is for other reasons that are clear to see once the facts are known.

Indeed.
A study [1], published in February, finds rebounding biofuels production, in 2021, provided a strong boost to Iowa’s economy.

The study [1], authored by John Urbanchuk, of ABF Economics, and commissioned by the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association* (IRFA), found the production of ethanol and biodiesel accounts for over $5 billion in state GDP, supports nearly 46,000 jobs throughout the economy, and boosts Iowa household income by more than $2.6 billion. All three metrics are up since 2020’s COVID downturn.

[1]“Contribution of the Renewable Fuels Industry to the Economy of Iowa” ~ by John Urbanchuk
➥ https://iowarfa.org/wp-content/uploa...aft.FINAL_.pdf

* The Iowa Renewable Fuels Association (IRFA) brings together Iowa biofuel producers to foster the development and growth of the state’s renewable fuels industry through education, promotion and infrastructure development. IRFA is committed to maintaining Iowa’s leadership in renewable fuels and value- added co-products production.
➥ https://iowarfa.org/