U.S.A. gasoline CAUTION 2022-06/09

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by P3sailor

More air intake means the engine will run leaner and hotter, generally not good for most internal combustion engines. In an internal combustion engine, combustion ceases when all of the oxygen is used, never is all of the fuel burned during the combustion process, so where does that unburned fuel go...it's expelled out the exhaust. It's a double-edged sword, too lean, go to a larger jet to enrich the mixture, thus a cooler running engine but more unburned fuel exhausted into the atmosphere and more pollution and less fuel economy. We just can't win.

Fuel with more oxygen in it tends to burn more completely, but you need to been more of it to get the mixture correct. There no perfect solution of course, hence needing things like catalytic converters to clean up the byproducts of an imperfect burn.

[PLANET EXPRESS]

I always experienced less miles to the gallon with egas. I do not think we should be burning food. Restart the keystone pipeline.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Gas docks around here sell E10. I have to go to one of a very few places to buy my ethanol free gas.

Whoa Cpt. Mark. i also live and boat in the Portland area. I refuel at the fuel dock at Jantzen Beach marima, the fuel dock at Donaldson's Marina, the fuel dock at Rocky Pointe, the fuel dock at St. Helens, and so on down the river (Cathlamette, Astoria, Ilwaco, etc). Where are you finding ethanol gasoline at a marine fuel dock on the lower Columbia?

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Assuming we are talking about gasoline for marine use, every fuel dock I have been to in the last few years sells only ethanol-free gasoline. Problem solved, unless you buy fuel for your outboard in jerry cans at a gas station or something like that.

No fuel dock where I live. Only ever used one for my diesel. I have never had an issue. I keep reading about all these issues but have no idea how people have them.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by Chotu

All of the problems from ethanol happen in the carburetor. An incredibly minuscule proportion happen elsewhere. If you do have some kind of problem from ethanol in your fuel line or whatever, that’s what your fuel filter is for. It keeps any of that crud out that is not certified to go through your system.

Fuel injected everything just works all the time. There is no doubt about it. Just think of what cars used to be like when they had carburetors versus what they were like once fuel injection got put in them. Night and day. Vapor lock? Etc., gone.

Even gasoline with some water in it is no problem for fuel injection. It goes right through.

You guys can disbelieve this all you want, you can argue about it all you want. I’ll just keep on cruising around on my motorcycle, and having my outboards all work without ever needing fuel system work or maintenance. Without having to clean a carb. Without having to pull a starter cord until I’m about to pass out.

You don’t have to listen, but if you do, your life will be easy and carefree like mine now is.

I have four fuel injected small engines now. Three of them are outboards. They run flawlessly at all times on ethanol gas and everything. They start first pull. Or in the case of two of them, the instant you turn the key. Just like a Japanese car. Incidentally those are fuel injected as well.

Make no mistake. Fuel injected engines are the way to get rid of all of your troubles. They just run and run and run.

My multiport fuel injected boat had problems from water in the fuel a couple years ago that was fixed by a couple bottles of HEET. I agree fuel injection does wonders for ethanol issues but it doesn’t eliminate all of ethanols negative characteristics.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MikeHoncho

My multiport fuel injected boat had problems from water in the fuel a couple years ago that was fixed by a couple bottles of HEET. I agree fuel injection does wonders for ethanol issues but it doesn’t eliminate all of ethanols negative characteristics.

Water in fuel is more of an issue with non-ethanol gas. Non-ethanol gas doesn't absorb water, so it puddles in the bottom of the tank (like with diesel) until there's enough to slosh into the pickup and start loading up fuel filters and causing problems.



Ethanol-containing gas will absorb some amount of water harmlessly (HEET and other drygas products are typically just alcohol of varying types). But if you have too much water, then the stuff separates and you've got a disaster to deal with.



Personally, in my gas boat, I throw some drygas in with every non-ethanol fillup to make sure the tanks stay dry and avoid issues if switching fuel types. After replacing old non alcohol safe fuel lines and carb gaskets, that boat ran on E10 for 15 years while it was in an area without non-ethanol fuel available. And after the lines, etc. were taken care of, there were no related issues.

[Chotu]

They are talking about this all over the Internet right now with all sorts of engines.

Everybody is scared.

I don’t feel too worried about it. Aside from the fuel injection keeping most of the problems at bay, the fuel lines are really the issue. And since we went from 0% to 10% without all that much trouble, I don’t think going up another 5% is going to really cause much issue. At least nothing to stress out about. Because all of the fuel lines are currently alcohol resistant.

I think the bottom line here is if you currently can handle 10% ethanol, you’re going to be able to handle 15%. It’s those people who are handling 0% right now that are going to have the trouble.

And I know there are a lot of places where you can’t get any ethanol free gas at the dock. It doesn’t exist. All of New York for instance.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

They are talking about this all over the Internet right now with all sorts of engines.

Everybody is scared.

I don’t feel too worried about it. Aside from the fuel injection keeping most of the problems at bay, the fuel lines are really the issue. And since we went from 0% to 10% without all that much trouble, I don’t think going up another 5% is going to really cause much issue. At least nothing to stress out about. Because all of the fuel lines are currently alcohol resistant.

I think the bottom line here is if you currently can handle 10% ethanol, you’re going to be able to handle 15%. It’s those people who are handling 0% right now that are going to have the trouble.

And I know there are a lot of places where you can’t get any ethanol free gas at the dock. It doesn’t exist. All of New York for instance.

It's not all of New York, just downstate. Connecticut is all E10 as well. Up here on Lake Ontario (NY side), the fuel docks only sell ethanol-free (although I wish they'd offer 89 octane E10 like downstate rather than just 90 octane E0, as the E10 should be a good 50 cents cheaper based on the difference between the 2 on the street). Not sure exactly where the cutoff line is for E0 availability in NY though.

Going from 10% to 15% may be an issue for some engines if the seals are only just good enough for E10, but that's probably very rare. More likely are engines that run borderline too lean already (and aren't EFI with O2 sensors, so can't compensate), so going to E15 might lean them out enough to be a problem.

Personally, I've only got 1 thing I avoid ethanol for, and it's a lawnmower. It's jetted so lean that it's a hair down on power on E10 and doesn't run as nicely. Nothing else I own (snowblower, cars, boat) seems to care either way. One of the cars actually runs a hair better on E10 (and it's hard to find high enough octane E0 for it anyway).

[Nicholson58]

Google search:
ethanol free gas near me

In 2016 we began our transit from Muskegon, Michigan to the Caribbean. We had (still have) an old 2-stroke Mercury Mariner 15. We were marooned three times as a result of ethanol 10. The ruined parts were:
Lining of the fuel hose from the tank to the engine Came loose and pugged everything.
Dip tube in the gas tank fell off.
Acceleration advance pump bellows disintegrated.

I learned to recognize the bellows problem and replaced it twice more.
Put a hose clamp on the dip tube.
Bought replacement ethanol fuel line.

In addition, the squeeze bulb turns hard as stone. Small hoses around the carburetor turned to goo. Many rubber parts failed and were replaced.

We have remained in the Caribbean where gas is just and only that.

Even if you buy a new motor reared for E15 the other parts of the system are vulnerable. Older gas tanks and fuel lines can sluff off material that can plug jets or injectors.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Google search:
ethanol free gas near me

In 2016 we began our transit from Muskegon, Michigan to the Caribbean. We had (still have) an old 2-stroke Mercury Mariner 15. We were marooned three times as a result of ethanol 10. The ruined parts were:
Lining of the fuel hose from the tank to the engine Came loose and pugged everything.
Dip tube in the gas tank fell off.
Acceleration advance pump bellows disintegrated.

I learned to recognize the bellows problem and replaced it twice more.
Put a hose clamp on the dip tube.
Bought replacement ethanol fuel line.

In addition, the squeeze bulb turns hard as stone. Small hoses around the carburetor turned to goo. Many rubber parts failed and were replaced.

We have remained in the Caribbean where gas is just and only that.

Even if you buy a new motor reared for E15 the other parts of the system are vulnerable. Older gas tanks and fuel lines can sluff off material that can plug jets or injectors.

That's exactly the kind of stuff you'll run into with non alcohol safe parts in the fuel system. But if you start out with alcohol safe rubber parts and a clean fuel system, it'll all generally be fine.



Unfortunately, for some small carbs, etc. there just aren't any good gaskets and such available, so it's hard to completely avoid the problems with some engines.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Water in fuel is more of an issue with non-ethanol gas. Non-ethanol gas doesn't absorb water, so it puddles in the bottom of the tank (like with diesel) until there's enough to slosh into the pickup and start loading up fuel filters and causing problems.



Ethanol-containing gas will absorb some amount of water harmlessly (HEET and other drygas products are typically just alcohol of varying types). But if you have too much water, then the stuff separates and you've got a disaster to deal with.



Personally, in my gas boat, I throw some drygas in with every non-ethanol fillup to make sure the tanks stay dry and avoid issues if switching fuel types. After replacing old non alcohol safe fuel lines and carb gaskets, that boat ran on E10 for 15 years while it was in an area without non-ethanol fuel available. And after the lines, etc. were taken care of, there were no related issues.

The key word is “some” so with lower % ethanol containing hydrocarbons , the ergs lol downs allow the water to 100% dissolve into the fuel and it makes more of a layered “ kind of mixed layer in the tank higher ( change of specific gravity) than it being water alone allow the solution to be drawn into the system. HEET enables the “solution to better dissolve into a solution.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Water in fuel is more of an issue with non-ethanol gas. Non-ethanol gas doesn't absorb water, so it puddles in the bottom of the tank (like with diesel) until there's enough to slosh into the pickup and start loading up fuel filters and causing problems.



Ethanol-containing gas will absorb some amount of water harmlessly (HEET and other drygas products are typically just alcohol of varying types). But if you have too much water, then the stuff separates and you've got a disaster to deal with.



Personally, in my gas boat, I throw some drygas in with every non-ethanol fillup to make sure the tanks stay dry and avoid issues if switching fuel types. After replacing old non alcohol safe fuel lines and carb gaskets, that boat ran on E10 for 15 years while it was in an area without non-ethanol fuel available. And after the lines, etc. were taken care of, there were no related issues.

The key word is “some” so with lower % ethanol containing hydrocarbons , the ethanol does not allow the water to 100% dissolve into the fuel and it makes more of a layered “ kind of mixed layer in the tank higher ( change of specific gravity) than it being water alone allow the solution to be drawn into the system. HEET enables the “solution to better dissolve into a solution.

[AKA-None]

Reminds me of my rv that needed all new lines
The gas that came out of the tanks was black and very fine

[Dieseldude]

Ethanol is less energy-dense than gasoline so there’s more energy in a gallon of gas than there is in a gallon of ethanol. In general, ethanol has about 33 percent less energy than pure gasoline. So, the more ethanol in the fuel, the worse the fuel economy you’re going to get. Gasoline with 10 percent ethanol yields about 3 percent less fuel economy than straight gas. Ethanol is more prone to evaporation than gasoline, so some of it will be lost to the air more quickly than gasoline, especially in hot weather.



If ethanol added to gasoline was intended to reduce emissions, it is not accomplishing such a goal. Plus the are those nasty effects ethanol has on engines and fuel systems.

Ethanol is generally made from corn, crop waste, wood chips, or sugarcane. Much of the biomass used to make ethanol is grown in vote critical states. Iowa, for example, can trace $5 billion in the state’s economy and 47,000 jobs directly to corn-based ethanol. Until this year, virtually every presidential candidate to win the Iowa caucuses since 1980 had pledged to support the continued mandate for ethanol addition to gasoline.



The cause of the ethanol problem has nothing to do with reducing pollution. It is for other reasons that are clear to see once the facts are known.

[Chotu]

Put another way, it’s the same reason you will find corn syrup in cheap things.