Lombardini Diesel

[bikesherpa]

Hi,
I owned a Lombardini LDW 2004 M and now a LDW 2204M.
I am very happy with them. The engine and the spare parts are cheaper than Volvo, and service is very good where I cruise (Italy, Croatia and Greece). They are reliable and simple engines (no electronics).
I always used the Lombardini recommended engine mounts.

[magomerlino]

thanks paul, All our rubber mounts are iether failing due to bonding between steel cup and rubber or we snap the stud between engine and mounting. The movment is so violent that the rubber cannot cope. the steel parts of the mounts smash together until the mounting stud snaps.

[daveNZ]

I've owned a Lombardini 1404 for two years. The engine is 14 years old done 700 hours. Perfect apart from rough idle!! Cruises quietly at 3 litres/hour. Reputedly well built and reliable, should out last me.
Interestingly it is ok at very low rpm, 6 or 700, bad up to 1000 when it is ok again. Recommended idle is up to 850 I think but if I set it at 1000, it is ok until put In gear when the slight drop in revs brings back the rough idle. 1100 rpm is a bit high for the twindisc gearbox so I idle at 650?? then change gear and get out of there as quick as I can (get revs up to 1000) Takes a bit of practise with twin controls.
It was worse to the point of feeling like a missing cylinder, but heavy dose of injector cleaner has made a definite improvement.
It is a great engine, easy to service, can be run at max. revs all day (according to factory). A long term installer of these has always 'commented' on the idle of the 1404, but says the 702 (2 cylinder) is perfect??

Not sure if you realise the injectors are Bosch cam driven pump/injector units. You can hold them away from the cam to isolate a cylinder. Tune up of fuel delivery and injector advance 'balancing' is a bit of a mission I'm told! Would love to hear from someone who knows about these injector systems.

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[magomerlino]

Ahha, Dave, thanks for getting back about this. I had never thought of going lower than 850 rpm. Will try when tide comes back in. If she runs smooth at 6 or 700 that would mean it had nothing to do with timing or low pressure fuel delivery I guess. My engines have done this from new ( january) so I can't think injector cleaner could solve it.
I agree a great engine at other rev ranges, but we do a whole lot of slow speed stuff around marinas. (I am a sailing school)( sorry if that's a swear word down with you!)
How bad would you say your vibration is? Snapping engine mountings bad? We have snapped half a dozen.
Another point dave. Do you have electric stops . solenoid valves which stop the flow off the secondary filter. We do, but they don't stop the engine? I got a new one but same trouble so investigated. Valve working perfectly. engine getting fuel from somewhere else!. I ahve rigged bog standard stop controls to rack, but I'm worried there is something wrong with fuel delivery system. cheers, jim

[daveNZ]

I've checked fuel hose from engine filter to engine, it is low pressure, and no air leaks. My impression is that something is not right in terms of the fuel delivery or injector timing as you go through the 7-1000 range. Above that it seems to be overcome by increased revs and hence more fuel flow etc. there are I think 2 adjustments that can be made, apart from checking injectors.the vibration on mine 'was' very bad, lumpy like it was running on three cylinders and I wouldn't let it run like that. Now it is just cupboard shaking stuff!
My fuel cutoff solenoid, on top of the engine fuel filter works perfectly. It has a lever to hold the valve open as well. Your problem is not just that this lever is open is it? I think it normally sits vertical and retained by a springy rest.
Can't imagine fuel coming from anywhere else; if there was a hole in the diaphragm in the lift pump it would just end up in the oil!
I have a service manual if that's of interest.
All good with the sailing school, watch out for Peter Burling!

[magomerlino]

Hi dave, Peter burling?
Don't need service manual thanks as you have different engine of same range. Ours is three cylinder. ldw10003m.
Yeh I checked the overide lever, its in the right place. The valve is working as I removed it to check. Opens and closes fine, but engine keeps running. Just occasionaly falters a bit but never stops until i stop manually. I'll come back later with report on lower than 850 rpm test.

[daveNZ]

The 'workshop manual' covers all the FOCS series, including the LDW1003. Some detail like your alternator might supersede this manual.

Your fuel issue is interesting/strange. I wonder if 12volts to solenoid remains even though you've switched the engine off? You'd have to believe that fuel is still getting through the usual way.

Peter Burling is the new Team New Zealand helmsman. Extraordinary track record in 470s and foiling moths and is current leader of Americas Cup World Series. Next event this weekend in Bermuda!!

[magomerlino]

Morning dave, Ok i slowed ours down to 600 but anything less than about 900 and she shakes like crazy! So not a fix for us I'm afraid.
Lombardini are coming to refit the shore 60 mounts next week. Engine can't shake then and she will idle at 850 but the whole boat will be shaking all over the place again! They say that I should have run the engines for 50 - 60 hours until the mounts "wear in" Then vibration will stop. Hmm sounds like until mounts start to "wear out" to me but hey they are going to do the work so good on em. I should also have a solution from someone who knows these engines re the cut off valve as well.
Like you I think this might all stem from low fuel delivery at idle speed.
More next week. have a good weekend ( I'm going sailing! Last trip of this year)
Oh sorry I don't follow the Americas cup. I don't have time. I did spend a whole week watching the AC45's when they came to plymouth. Wow! The whole town was buzzing! Its like Formula one. Fantastic. Shame Plymouth harbour is too small i think for the big foilers.

[bikesherpa]

The problem with the engine not sopping when the solenoid is cutoff is likely due to a blocked non-return valve on the return fuel line to the fuel tank.
I had that problem in the past with the previous engine.
Because the tank and the fitting of the return fuel line to it were well above the engine, the fuel was keeping coming backward into the injectors when the solenoid was shutoff. Even when cutting off the emergency primary fuel line valve, the engine would still run.
I had to clean the tiny steel balls inside the non return valves.

[daveNZ]

Thanks for the update (Jim?),
I'd love to find someone who can explain this idling issue. It sounds really bad on your boat and must be a huge distraction while mooching around teaching. Will be good to hear if new (different?) engine mounts make a difference.
The fuel non-return valve sounds quite plausible; I assume it is above the fuel filter. There are a couple of different arrangements of where the fuel lines enter and/or leave the housing above the secondary fuel filter. Not sure why it was changed.


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[magomerlino]

Hi dave, I did a quick test last night. Switched off the engine at the key ( It carried on running of course as usual) how ever when I nipped the fuel return pipe the engine faltered and eventually died. Clearly fuel rail is being back fed by leak off fuel. There are none returns on all the injector/pump units but clearly they don't work or are gummed up. time for some injector cleaner?
Actually I think I will just wait the techies from lombardini. They will want to see the problem. I can't but think that this rough idle and the fuel low pressure feed are related. More when they get here I hope. Jim

[daveNZ]

Jim, I thought I'd reread the service manual...you are quite right, there is a non-return valve in each injector. The following may not apply to your engine, but there is a note that if the o-ring above each valve is not compressed enough, fuel can leak into the engine oil. So that would be a clue, IF this particular situation existed. No idea if this is rare but thought I'd pass it on.

[bikesherpa]

Yes, there is a non-return valve in each injector. It is just a tiny steel ball. I had to dismount all the injectors to clean them and replaced all the balls.

[daveNZ]

Glad to hear from someone who with experience with Lombardini injectors.
Was your initial problem poor idling, and is it tricky to remove and replace the injectors? I've been warned that the fuel delivery balancing has to be checked??

[bikesherpa]

Hi,
My initial problem was just the engine not shutting off via the solenoid. The engine was vibrating badly only after the solenoid was turned off, but I think that was normal because the fuel from the return line was not serving all injectors.

It is easy to dismount the injectors. However, while cleaning them I lost a couple of those steel balls used in the return valves. They are very very small and easy to get loose.
Be careful also not to break the fuel lines connected to the injectors. They are press fitted with a special tool (it is a special spare part from Lombardini).
Also, Lombardini has indipendent mechanical injection pumps for each cilinder and it is very important that the are all equalized to provide the same pressure.
If you dismount an injector and change the position of the register screw, you may create imbalance.
To equalize the injectors, you'll need a Lombardini mechanic with a special equipment that measures the pressure of each pump through a by-pass and register all pumps.
Maybe the imbalance in the injector pumps is really what is creating vibration at low low rpms. I'd consult a Lombardini mechanic.