Monohull or Multihull Sailboat?

[Factor]

Originally Posted by catty

but we have certainly found the short sharp motion generated from beam on stuff is pretty uncomfortable compared to the gentle slow movement of a heavy mono (within reason). .

This suprises me - I regularly watch the violent rolling of masts in some anchorages when there is a sewll or in places where power boats copme and go. You say the "we have found ..." compared to gentle slow movement etc.

What multi are you one when this happens, I suspect you techniques may need adjustment. Why are you beam on - you dont need to be. As for gentle slow movement - Last time I anchored in wine glass bay at tassie as an example I didnt see any gentle slow movements from the monos, even the 50 footers weighing many tons, I saw very rapid and sharp mast movements.

Round moreton bay when a big stink boat goes silly (and that happens often) through the anchorage - same thing happens.

[catty]

Hmmmmmm Factor did you read this bit ........."(within reason). ."

Factor says...."Why are you beam on - you don't need to be."

Sometimes Factor everything is not as simple as it seems in the books and swell can actually wrap around headlands , therefore no longer lining up with the prevailing wind direction, or the current can hold one a little side on.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Factor

Round moreton bay when a big stink boat goes silly (and that happens often) through the anchorage - same thing happens.

I've seen that and mate they are loonies over there. I recently had to take a big boat from the newish Gold Coast Marina down the river and out in to the Tasman. Boy Oh boy I was pleased to get out to sea. I felt every fizz boat was out to kill me, loonies and many of them.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by catty

... swell can actually wrap around headlands , therefore no longer lining up with the prevailing wind direction, or the current can hold one a little side on.

That's what usually causes a rolly anchorage here in smaller islands of the eastern Caribbean.

The only "potential" solution is to put out a stern anchor, or warp your main anchor line to a winch in the cockpit, to pull your stern into the swells. Of course, then the breeze is on your beam, and you don't get much ventilation down below. And things can change in the middle of the night, and you're rolling again.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by catty

but we have certainly found the short sharp motion generated from beam on stuff is pretty uncomfortable compared to the gentle slow movement of a heavy mono

What Sully and I have been talking about is small waves (sometimes VERY small) that just happen to have the right frequency to set the boat rolling. In those conditions I've been anchored next to cats that were simply not moving at all. Yet our boat, and other mono's nearby were rolling heavily. This was a heavy mono - 12 tonnes for 40' - but the movement was neither gentle nor slow.

[rexposeidon]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

So you rig your boat for heavy seas every single night? Even when anchored in a (usually) well protected spot? I can tell you that not many cruisers do. And if conditions do change, even that won't guarantee a comfortable night's sleep

Frankly I don't see what your experience of sortieing a ship in a hurricane has to do with anchoring a boat in a protected anchorage.

Yes I rig for heavy seas/unexpected conditions at every anchorage. That many cruisers do not is their choice; albeit, IMHO, not a wise one. I pick my achorages, and set up with utmost care, to the point of OCD. I believe in Edison's adaged that 'God favors the prepared mind.' I recognize that you cannot prepare for every contingency but you can be ready for most. With the amount of information available today, you can be better prepared than our forebearers who plotted the way for us through their hardships and steep learning curve.

In regards to sortieing in a hurricane, my statement was intended to reflect that preparation (securing for heavy seas etc) was the best way to survive strenuous conditions. And that I don't recall ever having slept better than that night of rocking and rolling, even sleeping through the sounds of some of my shipmates agony as they tried to turn their guts inside out, because 1. I love the motion. 2. My advanced preparation left me only to worry about the strength of Mother Nature's love.

I do appologise if my previous post was thought to be a bash, I believed myself only to be responding in kind. I do wholeheartedly agree with BigCat's earlier statement that there is really no debate here, only individuals defending their choices and that every design has its advatages and disadvantages. And to paraphrase myself from an earlier post... drinks will be served on the quarter deck at 5. Please remember it is always 5 somewhere in the world.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by rexposeidon

Yes I rig for heavy seas/unexpected conditions at every anchorage. That many cruisers do not is their choice; albeit, IMHO, not a wise one. I pick my achorages, and set up with utmost care, to the point of OCD. I believe in Edison's adaged that 'God favors the prepared mind.' I recognize that you cannot prepare for every contingency but you can be ready for most. With the amount of information available today, you can be better prepared than our forebearers who plotted the way for us through their hardships and steep learning curve.

In regards to sortieing in a hurricane, my statement was intended to reflect that preparation (securing for heavy seas etc) was the best way to survive strenuous conditions. And that I don't recall ever having slept better than that night of rocking and rolling, even sleeping through the sounds of some of my shipmates agony as they tried to turn their guts inside out, because 1. I love the motion. 2. My advanced preparation left me only to worry about the strength of Mother Nature's love.

I do appologise if my previous post was thought to be a bash, I believed myself only to be responding in kind. I do wholeheartedly agree with BigCat's earlier statement that there is really no debate here, only individuals defending their choices and that every design has its advatages and disadvantages. And to paraphrase myself from an earlier post... drinks will be served on the quarter deck at 5. Please remember it is always 5 somewhere in the world.

If you rig for heavy weather every single night, more power to you. You certainly have more discipline than I do. Or anyone else I know.

And I know people who have lived aboard and cruised for 25 years. I guess after 20 years or so, preparing for an unexpected hurricane EVERY single night gets just a little old?

What is funny is that you go on to admit that the motion you love makes your shipmates sick. Is it possible that you are the exception rather than the rule? That many, perhaps most people would find this kind of rolling uncomfortable, or even unpleasant?

No doubt there are some people who would like to live in a roller-coaster full time. I think there would be many more who wouldn't.

[GMac]

I tend to have my boat/s ready to bail out at very short notice. It would be uncommon for me not to be able to get up and be moving (the boat) inside a couple of minutes maximum. Saying that I often leave sun covers up and things like if the weather is stable but at the same time I don't usually leave anything up that would hinder the boats movement. If the weather has any potential nasty in it I will pack the boat away as if I was heading into a 60kt nasty.

A bit of 'where you boat' comes into this I suspect. Much of mine has been Sth Pacific and the weather can change real fast down this way. One trip just a couple of years back; the forecast was OK and the horizon looked fine. Having brunch at 11am in 10-15kts, saw some clouds on the horizon about midday and was bare poles doing 6kts at 2pm with the wind gear maxed out at 65kts. It can easily do stuff like that in NZ as well, fantastic at lunch and complete yuck by dinner. Actually today is shaping up that way, in for a big bit of wet and wind this evening by the looks. At the moment (3pm) we have a few clouds, sun and nice but it does have an evil feel about it. If I was on my boat I'd be packing her up to 'YuckCon Level 2' right now.

Again it comes down to personal choice, which to a point is dictated by past experiences. As I've had frights previously and do boat in fast weather changing areas I now tend to be more prepared for the next one as most people probably would. If you haven't experienced that or are in a stable weather place you wouldn't do what we do, which is quite understandable.

Also many of the boats haven't been mine so tend to be a bit more careful, as you do. Along with that is I have also had many occasions when the rest of the crew are newbies and would have no idea what to do or be able to handle me in my undies (and before you ask, Yes it is a damn sexy look....not ) hurriedly trying to explain what to do at 4am. Due to that I tend to be ready to up anchor and move single handed even if there are other people aboard.

I don't mind a bit of rock 'n roll really. It is the ocean after all so it's not like you can expect none all the time. I've also been in the odd anchorage where the monos sit happily and the multi's, usually the bigger ones, are doing all the movement. Often in the Pacific Islands you get a ground swell coming in and when it hits the shallower waters it produces not so much waves as a stepper swell. This can have the effect of getting the bigger (wider) multis lifting a hull on one while the other doesn't for a few moments. Then the down hull comes up while the up hull goes down giving a noticable rocking motion. While it's never looked that bad they are moving where everyone else is just gently going up and down on each swell.

I'd say that as a general rule Multis do sit calmer at anchor but on the odd occasion they just don't. Well I bloody hope so anyway, that is one of the reasons I'm going to 2 hulls with my next big boat but I'm also not expecting to be less rock n' roll than a mono every time.

Oh and by the way, yes I do realise sometimes you are just stuck with what you have and can't do much about it. But I'd also suggest there is always 'something' that can be done or at least there should be.

One rule I live by 'Always know where the escape route is and if there isn't one, make one'. Having zero options is dangerous and silly, beit in my car, at anchorage or at the mistress's house

[Robertcateran]

Amazing what a flopper stopper can do to damp motion. On fishing trawlers we used to tie a fish box of each quarter to damp motion. Not so much for sleeping but for fixing gear. I know of many who do the same on small multis with a bucket of each quarter. This also reduces yawing in the breeze considerably. Some trawlers would have their outriggers out with dedicated steel plates in the water to damp the motion.
Robert

[catty]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

What Sully and I have been talking about is small waves (sometimes VERY small) that just happen to have the right frequency to set the boat rolling. In those conditions I've been anchored next to cats that were simply not moving at all. Yet our boat, and other mono's nearby were rolling heavily. This was a heavy mono - 12 tonnes for 40' - but the movement was neither gentle nor slow.

Yes 44c I hear what you are saying, but sometimes the grass isn't any greener on the other side and those small waves while not causing the cats to roll in the same spectacular fashion may be just the right frequency to pick up one hull and drop it before moving to the next, causing an unpleasant and very quick up and down motion . Possibly not discernible or as spectacular from your vantage point but certainly unpleasant .

We certainly enjoy the increased anchoring options presented by the catamaran configuration.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by catty

Sometimes Factor everything is not as simple as it seems in the books and swell can actually wrap around headlands , therefore no longer lining up with the prevailing wind direction, or the current can hold one a little side on.

Well familiar with that - eg Pancake Creek on Bustard head, - I dont know why you think I get my thoughts from books, yes I can read, and do read books but my comments here are based on real world sailing not academic pondering.

I can raise and lower boards, and raise and lower the rudder, move the angle of the bridle and similar tactics which will all result in having the boat sit more or less to wind, more or less to sea more or less to tide.

Its easy if you are prepared to experiment with your boat.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by catty

...
Sometimes ... swell can actually wrap around headlands , therefore no longer lining up with the prevailing wind direction, or the current can hold one a little side on.

Originally Posted by Factor

... I can raise and lower boards, and raise and lower the rudder, move the angle of the bridle and similar tactics which will all result in having the boat sit more or less to wind, more or less to sea more or less to tide.
Its easy if you are prepared to experiment with your boat.

See the discussion:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...lines-653.html

[Canibul]

A friend of mine who is a fishing captain down here in the TCI took this photo yesterday. This is a monohull sitting in 30 feet of water. The keel is also sitting in 30 feet of water. On the other side of that coral head.

Answers most of my questions.

[rexposeidon]

we can all find pics that support our favs

http://www.piersystem.com/clients/uscg-13/67196.jpg

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Answers most of my questions.

I guess what you are saying is that a Cat would have crossed this reef safely.

Me? I would prefer to be on either a Cat or a Mono......with someone who could Navigate.

But I appreciate that opinions vary.....