Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Happ

They are put on a Roller Furler and have a very wide range of use in angle as well as wind speed. That’s why so many multis’ have the. Simply roll it up when you don’t want it. As to Luff tension that’s simply set by how far you want the draft forward. It’s not nearly as critical on a cruising boat. Worrying about halyard tension is more for those who that like that kind of stuff. Just hoist it when you think you are going to be sailing in 10-15 knt and you are sailing over 45d off the wind. Simple. Don’t over think this.

If a furling gennaker or screecher has a torsion cable then tensioning the halyard does not move the draft forward - it simply decreases the luff sag. The tension is applied to the cable, which is independent of the sail. Typically the cable is in a luff pocket and the sail is attached at a certain tension to the top and bottom of the cable.

Gennakers can be made flatter or rounder, depending on the boat. One with a larger genoa can have a rounder gennaker as it doesn’t need the extra sail area for close reaching, so it will work for deeper reaches. A boat with a smaller genoa or jib (non-overlapping) can still use a rounder gennaker for reaching, but may benefit from a screecher if light wind close hauled is a problem.

On our boat the bottom furler and the furling line is kept out all the time. Deploying the gennaker is simply a matter of hoisting it and running one of the sheets. Swapping it for the (future) screecher is not a big deal.

I see lots of cats with their screecher/gennaker up all the time. I would be careful with that as these sails often don’t have UV protection cloth due to its weight. I’ve seen painted UV protection but apparently that doesn’t last all that long.

[Happ]

Mine had a wire luff in the luff so there is some ability to tighten and loosen the luff. The lighter air I would soften the luff. Heavier air tighten the luff. Nothing is ever locked in steel. There is always a bit of play even in a torsion system.

[Boatguy30]

Raced yesterday against a Gunboat 55 and a 16m kiwi cruiser racer cat. Somehow those boats can’t sail the same angle as this chaps amazing Lagoon 400 in 8-10 tws.

Did see a few L400s motoring around yesterday. Must need that leeward engine reeving for 90 deg tack!

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Raced yesterday against a Gunboat 55 and a 16m kiwi cruiser racer cat. Somehow those boats can’t sail the same angle as this chaps amazing Lagoon 400 in 8-10 tws.

Did see a few L400s motoring around yesterday. Must need that leeward engine reeving for 90 deg tack!

sorry if performance of our L 400 upset other people. Not all boats are setup the same. Say we do not have generator and have lithium and small solar panels. We also have factory installed bow sprit and 7 blocks for better sail setting. That improves the trim quite a bit. We motor little in 8 years 1250 hours each, most hours in sydney harbour avoiding crazy monohull racers. We go off anchor often without turning on engine and raise sails after. Boat was around the world and is now close to 30 K nm.
So, yeah, it sails well and we love sailing.

[Boatguy30]

Honestly, would love to see your boat sailing that well. I have raced against a Lagoon 39 which to my eye appears the same hull and different rig. Was no where close to what you’re claiming.

Again, more power to you! Where you sailing at?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Honestly, would love to see your boat sailing that well. I have raced against a Lagoon 39 which to my eye appears the same hull and different rig. Was no where close to what you’re claiming.

Again, more power to you! Where you sailing at?

sorry, we are not into racing. Sure will not offload 2.5t of stuff to race.

However, 5 kn at 34 app and 10 kn true what seem to bother you...

We use 76m2 screecher instead of 35m2 jib. Add 61m2 square top main and we get to 137m2 of upwind sail for 12.5T boat. Luff has to be tensioned really well so not every boat can take it. That is why i find claims that lagoons are soft, funny. Flying outside shrouds can get down to 40 app. L 400 is very wide, unlike L 39 that is very narrow. So I got this idea to run gennaker inside shrouds. And it worked somehow first time. It is not easy to get right conditions - flat enough seas and steady 8-10 kn and ok-yed by wife.

Once I get it going will post small video to show what i could squeeze out and how i have done it so you get clearer picture.

We are hanging around Frazer Island.

[smj]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

sorry, we are not into racing. Sure will not offload 2.5t of stuff to race.



However, 5 kn at 34 app and 10 kn true what seem to bother you...



We use 76m2 screecher instead of 35m2 jib. Add 61m2 square top main and we get to 137m2 of upwind sail for 12.5T boat. Luff has to be tensioned really well so not every boat can take it. That is why i find claims that lagoons are soft, funny. Flying outside shrouds can get down to 40 app. L 400 is very wide, unlike L 39 that is very narrow. So I got this idea to run gennaker inside shrouds. And it worked somehow first time. It is not easy to get right conditions - flat enough seas and steady 8-10 kn and ok-yed by wife.



Once I get it going will post small video to show what i could squeeze out and how i have done it so you get clearer picture.



We are hanging around Frazer Island.

The L400’s beam is only 1.5’ wider than the L39, not a huge difference. But the L39’s beam at centerline is about 1’ wider than the L400’s making the 39 more stable.

[Boatguy30]

Seeing as how your supposed data is based on 10 knots TWS I do have a big issue with it being fake, but all good.

Saturday I was racing my almost fully loaded 34’ Cat with LAR keeps against monohulls and a Gunboat 60 and fast 16m cruising Cat Apache. Somehow, all three of us were managing about 110 deg tacks, the monos between 80 and 100. Your Lagoon would have smoked us!

[Training Wheels]

[emoji15][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[smj]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Seeing as how your supposed data is based on 10 knots TWS I do have a big issue with it being fake, but all good.



Saturday I was racing my almost fully loaded 34’ Cat with LAR keeps against monohulls and a Gunboat 60 and fast 16m cruising Cat Apache. Somehow, all three of us were managing about 110 deg tacks, the monos between 80 and 100. Your Lagoon would have smoked us!

A Gunboat 60 tacking through 110 deg? Now that’s sad.

[Training Wheels]

Maybe not. The faster you go upwind, the less your TWA is. It’s all about VMG.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

sorry, we are not into racing. Sure will not offload 2.5t of stuff to race.

However, 5 kn at 34 app and 10 kn true what seem to bother you...

We use 76m2 screecher instead of 35m2 jib. Add 61m2 square top main and we get to 137m2 of upwind sail for 12.5T boat. Luff has to be tensioned really well so not every boat can take it. That is why i find claims that lagoons are soft, funny. Flying outside shrouds can get down to 40 app. L 400 is very wide, unlike L 39 that is very narrow. So I got this idea to run gennaker inside shrouds. And it worked somehow first time. It is not easy to get right conditions - flat enough seas and steady 8-10 kn and ok-yed by wife.

Once I get it going will post small video to show what i could squeeze out and how i have done it so you get clearer picture.

We are hanging around Frazer Island.

arsenelupiga, Just to clarify, is your boat the Lagoon 400 that shows up in sailboat data, https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/lagoon-400, which indicates that it is twin keel, (not centerboards)?

If so, that video you are considering should show both how you have the boat rigged and the instruments. I'd like to see TWA, AWA, BSP, and VMG, and a track showing tacking angles would also be convincing, of course current effects are always a possibility which the instruments don't usually show.

It is not that we doubt you, it's just astonishing that you can do it. We'd like to see how.

[Boatguy30]

Attached are pics is angles, maybe a bit better than 110. Basically 8-10 TWS flat water with boat wakes. Speed was about 6.2 knots. Got to weather mark just with fast 9m monos and cruiser racers like Chico 42 and was a long beat about 4.5nm. Outer track line is reach leg.

[jmh2002]

How was your angle upwind compared to the monos in those conditions? Not pointing the finger, just for interests sake regarding your Vardo 34 (which if I remember correctly you sail pretty well - but still loaded for live aboard right?).

Nice day out on the water regardless



EDIT: sorry, you mentioned it before, 110 vs 80 to 100 deg tacks

[Boatguy30]

Here is another pic just at the gybe mark. Shows the relative loading. Probably at about 10,000 lbs vs 11,000 full load. Again, these were probably ideal upwind conditions for my boat. Reefed down into 25 knots that last 40 miles into N Minerva we were racking at about 140 degrees! Truly horrible!