Catamaran Sailing techniques?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Some key differences:
Feedback: you get a lot of feedback (visual & physical) when sailing a mono...very little from cats...more sailing by the numbers than feel.

Tacking: different technique (no not backing the jib!) for tacking cats. Wharrams can be a challenge to tack depending on conditions.

The above surely ain't the case on beach cats, or other types designed with performance in mind. Quite the opposite. You get immediate & quite clear feedback as to what reactions your actions create.

Though, yes, tacking them IS different. You don't have the keel's momentum to carry you through a tack executed with poor technique. Such as trying to tack from a reach, without first hardening up & sailing closer to the wind, to build up some speed. So that the boat will then be able to make it through the wind's eye to the other tack.

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

rudder after propeller is calling for problems. Sliding back from the wave will bend the rudder that will also incapacitate propellers. Just ask cat guru Gregor Tarjan.

Excuse me, but WTF! I can see maybe, again, maybe, bending a rudder shaft if a cat slides around with her rudder against the stops doing 25kts. But if there's a boat out there on which it's that seemingly easy to bend her rudder, then the boat needs to be recalled.

I know of one designer who spec's the rudder shafts on his boats to be able to withstand the rudder being hard on the stops at above stated speed, & he then adds in a large safety factor on top of this.

Boats with their rudders in front of their propellers are a rarity rather than the norm. And for not insignificant reasons. Since boats without prop wash over their rudders are much harder to manuever in close quarters.


To the OP, you can do the majority of your early sailing on an affordable mono. Just keep the sailing tame, so as not to scare off some of your crew, permanantly, & or, early on. And from time to time you can rent a beach cat to get more of a feel for how they sail. This along with chartering a large'ish cat for a vacation, so that you get a good sense of the real deal.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Snore

Larger ones are unsailable under main alone.

Yeah? Not the ones I sail

Tacking in light winds often requires turning on the leeward engine to pushed her through.

Again not the ones I sail

One important difference is that FP and other cats place the rudder forward of the engines.

Yes, a very silly idea

[yeloya]

I've sailed almost any kind of cat of almost every make and model for about 45.000 nm. Here are my toughts;

-prop aft the rudder or not : it doesn't make any difference in sailing techniques at all. I've sailed both. The prop aft the rudder is better in moneuvring (higher torque) but very risky as it can pick up any floating objects to the props very soon. If it's a fishing line then you will most likely have to haul out yr boat because the seal will be damaged in a shortwhile and you will have a good quality moyonnese in yr sail drive.

-there is a big difference in sailing FP, Lagoon kind of boats with Catana, Outremer type of the ones with dagger boards and light boats, hence not every cat is the same .. (like not every mono is the same) You cannot handle all cats the same way. Proper trimming is very rewarding in light and sporty cats whilst it doesn't make much difference on the others.

-Generally speaking, you should be tacking faster than on mono and try to maintain the speed of the boat while tacking, otherwise you will have to start the engines.. This is more the case if the seas are choppy..

-if you know how to sail a mono, the only difference is in the trimming of the mainsail, gib is the same. (Mainsail trim of cats has been discussed here several times, I don't want to initiate again, just search on the forum)

-manoeuvring is completely different than the monos; forget the helm, fix it firmly and moneuver with both engines.

-never point the cats too close to winds, even the ones that goes well to the wind. The VMG of most cats (with a few exceptions) is always better when you go to a slightly wider angle. You may tack couple of times more, but you will be faster to yr target.

-I don't fully agree on reefing by numbers; every boat behave differently. Moreover, the sea state, the competence and the mood of the crew, etc. are also an important factors. When you get enough experience, the boat will tell you anyway when she's unhappy and you will feel it. Until then reef early, do so when you are unsure, you won't lose any speed by reefing. As the cats don't heel like the monos, you will put a lot of strains on yr rigging and for nothing..

-motoring against wind and particularly against waves is a horrible experience on cats. Always put up yr main, give 20-25 degrees to the wind and motor , if you have to. The cats are light and don't have the inertia; they accelerate and decelerate very fast. When you go against the waves, that causes a jerky motion which is very uncomfortable. Cats go very good upwind but they hate waves. (unfortunately when you go the the wind most of the time you also go against waves..) If you want to motor to the high seas, monos are always better and more comfortable than cats.

-if you want to enjoy sailing on cat; keep it LIGHT, LIGHT,LIGHT.. That makes a difference on every boat, that makes a huge difference on cats..
The lighter the cat, the more sensible will be to weight.



Hope this helps..

Cheers

Yeloya

[admiralslater]

The catamaran that the OP is considering is a Tiki 26 a Warrham Design ,which would be quite a different sailing experience than either a similar sized mono hull or modern catamaran. That does not mean that he should not get it and learn to sail it . It will teach them how to back the Jib and low speed maneuvering .
AS a life long (55 years ) multihull but mostly cat sailer I would say the main differences in cat and monohull sailing , it varies between boats . but they are .
1 more leeway at docking speeds so more speed required for some of these maneuvers

2 sailing into the tack as opposed to throwing the helm over will reduce getting caught in irons . Critical in light winds and rougher conditions.
releasing the main mid tack will help in this as well

3Dump main sheet /track when trying to lay off in light conditions.

4 When anchoring wind can be a much bigger factor than currents
5 When operating a Cat with twin screws don't expect them to replace good boat handling techniques . Learned the hard way.
6 If the word reef enters your head do it . Unless you are beating the other guy.
7 Enjoy yourself what ever you get

[Captain Bill]

The tacking ability of a cat in light winds is hard to generalize. I can tack my boat going 1.5 knots in 2.5 knots of apparent wind. The trick is to not get too aggressive with the rudder and stall it. A few cats might require an engine and a few just a good technique. If you are carrying a large roller furling headsail you might need to roll it part way in to avoid too much force forward of the mast. if you roll it up the main will just push you around. It's all specific to your boat and sail configuration, so work out a technique that works with your boat and enjoy.

[sv Grateful]

WRT props aft of rudders in some FP & Lagoon, I think they are brilliant. I'm sure it was done for layout reasons, but in practice: 1) Sailing, rudders are in undisturbed water. 2) Manoeuvring, you can get a little forward way on, put the helm hard over, to stbd, for example, put port in reverse and move sideways to port as if you had thrusters. With a little practice, you don't even have to have fwd way on, just add a touch of fwd to the 'outside' engine.

Can't tack without an engine? Not a .problem on my FP Lavezzi....

[boatman61]

The Tiki 26 is a nice little boat but there's a few things different to your 'Bog Cat'..
First you've a gaff wing sail... no boom so reefing down is not as straight forward..
Tacking can be done just harden the jib till the wind Crosses the bow and she'll keep going.. if you stall just reverse back onto your course... you'll be back up to speed In less than 100 metres...
That's something to watch out for.. reverse, they can very easily.. great for three point turns.. turn into wind and stall.. opposite rudder as she goes back.. release jib and haul in for opposite tack, readjust tiller and away..

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

The trick is to not get too aggressive with the rudder and stall it.

Thanks, for the education! After reading the various posts, I may be stalling the rudder when I tack in very light winds and when I fall off after setting the main.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The Tiki 26 is a nice little boat but there's a few things different to your 'Bog Cat'..
First you've a gaff wing sail... no boom so reefing down is not as straight forward..
Tacking can be done just harden the jib till the wind Crosses the bow and she'll keep going.. if you stall just reverse back onto your course... you'll be back up to speed In less than 100 metres...
That's something to watch out for.. reverse, they can very easily.. great for three point turns.. turn into wind and stall.. opposite rudder as she goes back.. release jib and haul in for opposite tack, readjust tiller and away..

Boaty is spot on about a Tiki 26 being very different than what I will call a more modern cat. However as others have noted there are various flavors of modern cats. Some are quite easy to tack while others will wind up in irons at the slightest excuse. I have seen many older budget cats powered by a single outboard on the back even if they originally had twin inboards; something that changes how easy it is to dock.

Keep in mind Wharram designed his cats for folks who were basically inexperienced so they were forgiving. A lot of folks with no experience and without the aid of CF have sailed Wharram designs successfully. I would not hesitate telling to OP to go for it.

[admiralslater]

Keep in mind Wharram designed his cats for folks who were basically inexperienced so they were forgiving. A lot of folks with no experience and without the aid of CF have sailed Wharram designs successfully. I would not hesitate telling to OP to go for it.[/QUOTE]
Our first boat was a Tane 27 so I agree with going for it . But to suggest that it can be done without the aid of CF ,Well that's just crazy! :biggr in:

[FSJunky]

Thank you all! lots of good information, unfortunately the local marina is out of side ties so i would ether get to pay for two 28 foot slips or a 40ft. neither of witch is in my price range. but it sounds like i can get a small mono hull to learn most of what I need to know. It was also pointed out that the ASA classes are a good deal compared to teaching your self. I guess after a few costly mistakes that is a truth. I really love the Tiki but for now it is just not to be.

[danielamartindm]

Other posts are dead-on. Cats won't tell you when you're overpowered. You need to reef per the gusting of the apparent wind, and do it by numbers rather than feeling. Heavy weather tactics are different for cats, favoring running over reaching, and therefore drogues more than sea anchors off the bow; some might disagree. Rounding up from a broad reach in heavy seas requires far more caution on a cat than on a monohull. Heaving to on cats is even more variable among different makes than it is for monohulls. The forces you'll be dealing with on a cat are greater than on a comparably sized monohull, and attention to winching and brakes is more critical. "Tacking downwind," by alternate jibes along your rhumb line is a useful skill you'll quickly learn. Perhaps the biggest transition from monohulls to cats is having two widely spaced hulls and twin screws. This is a blessing for maneuverability, but it takes practice to be able to "walk" the cat sideways (without making way) up to a dock, or to use a piling to pivot on for arrivals or departures in moderate conditions, or to pivot off a bow or stern line in more challenging conditions. Other than the motoring, most of the nuances of cats for a monohull sailor are of similar difficulty as if transitioning between monohulls; you have the skills, you just need a chance to learn a new boat. When the time comes, you'll do fine if you're grounded in basic seamanship. Fair winds.

[mikedefieslife]

All good advice. Of course the OP is talking about a Tiki 26, which is basically two canoes strapped together. Looks like a fun cat to play/learn on and enjoy a bit of cruising.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

The above surely ain't the case on beach cats, or other types designed with performance in mind. Quite the opposite. You get immediate & quite clear feedback as to what reactions your actions create.

...

True, no lack of feedback on a beach cat, but the context was cruising cats.

Of course on beach cats the time delta between feedback and result (like pitchpoling) can often be measured in seconds! [emoji15]

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

True, no lack of feedback on a beach cat, but the context was cruising cats.

Of course on beach cats the time delta between feedback and result (like pitchpoling) can often be measured in seconds! [emoji15]

You get the same feed back on larger cats. In light to moderate conditions, it may be very subtle--you have to listen closely. In really strong conditions, even big cats come alive, and the feedback can be very similar. The real reason to learn on small cats is to have it really beaten into your mind, what it feels like just before it goes pear-shaped, so you know to avoid that! I've gotten my cruising cat on one hull before, and I didn't like it. I was singlehanding in blustery conditions, had it on autopilot and got distracted, and felt the boat start to lean. Oh ****. I put it back down and reefed.