Broken Lagoon

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by wkstar

Cat Impi has just gotten off the hard after a year because of this and other issues

Sorry to hear this, for they are very nice folks and serious cruisers. I'd not heard of their problems, and glad that they have them in their wake now.

And FWIW, they are careful sailors and maintainers... I doubt if the problems were operator error!

Jim

[smj]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

The Lagoon was a badly Hurricane damaged vessel with a raft of issues caused by the Hurricane. If you watch the series of videos at no time does the owner, who is a very talented person at no time blames Lagoon for the issue. Colin contacted Lagoon for advice and is being supported in obtaining details on how to repair his boat and is in personal contact with the naval achitects who are assisiting him in his repairs. You cannot in any way shape of form blame Lagoon for the issue based on the boats history yet Lagoon is assisting with technical information. That does not sound like a company that leave people stranded.





Ozsailer

lagoon 440

There are many Lagoon 450’s with the bulkhead problems. Appears to be a bad design.

https://en-gb.facebook.com/groups/902269000568556/

[smj]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Serously you better speak with Brent and Anna personally as I am sure they will tell you a different story regarding their haulout for long overdue maintenance and upgrades such as installing a waterproof bulkhead in the engine room. I own a Lagoon 440 and love it to death and to my knoweledge there is no issue with the bulkheads on the L440.





Ozsailer

L440.

Appears Impi has done major bulkhead work.

https://catamaranimpi.com/2020/07/28...-a-lagoon-440/
I also recall him saying they had done a lot of structural work on their 440 to make it what he considers more blue water safe. I believe this bulkhead work was part of that.

[ozsailer]

Just to ensure I have the correct facts I have sent off a message to Cat Impi and enquired what work they actually undertook and the reason for the work. If I get a reply I will post with the details. At least that way all all get the same information. At least then we all get the correct information from the horses mouth.

Ozsailer
Lagoon 440

[smj]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Just to ensure I have the correct facts I have sent off a message to Cat Impi and enquired what work they actually undertook and the reason for the work. If I get a reply I will post with the details. At least that way all all get the same information. At least then we all get the correct information from the horses mouth.



Ozsailer

Lagoon 440

[emoji1303]and I will try to find the video or post where he made that statement. I respect Impi for doing what they believe is right to make their cat what they consider bluewater ready, of course that doesn’t mean it wasn’t bluewater ready before the modifications.

[arsenelupiga]

looks like not all lagoon boats are made same. Our boat passed 30k nm in 9 years and no cracking, all dors closing, no loss of rigging tension. No sign of any deterioration. From what i can see all bulkheads glassed.

We were lucky to capture nacelle issue early. Apart from that no breakages or anything else except minor sub $500 items here and there.

Maybe because boat is kept relatively light & we loosely follow reefing guidelines & boat is kept as dry as possible?

[ozsailer]

OK folks. Its late but I have been messaging Brent from Cat Impi who very graciously answered my enquiries and also gave me permission to cut and paste the relevant part of our conversation here on Cruisers Forum.

Hi Greg and Sue
It’s unfortunate that people are overstating the situation and pulling all Lagoons into the same box of bulkhead issues.
The 440 does have issues with the outer bulkhead usually found on the port side under bed base section against the outer wall.This was an issue we addressed when we bought the boat new as we knew this to be an issue.

Lagoon at the time suggested the reason for not glassing the outer bulkhead sections was so the bulkhead could break away from the hull without doing destruction to the actual hull which would allow water ingress.

Personally we did not agree with this and in consultation with marine surveyors in Cape Town decided to remove the panels on our brand new boat and glass in the the sides. On some 440’s where owners have not done this (outer bulkhead) the issue can be transferred to the main bulkhead base. The way to see this is if the boat is hauled to look very carefully between the hulls along the section where the bulkhead attaches above - if there are hairline cracks it indicates probable delamination.
Hi Greg and Sue
It’s unfortunate that people are overstating the situation and pulling all Lagoons into the same box of bulkhead issues.
The 440 does have issues with the outer bulkhead usually found on the port side under bed base section against the outer wall.This was an issue we addressed when we bought the boat new as we knew this to be an issue.

Lagoon at the time suggested the reason for not glassing the outer bulkhead sections was so the bulkhead could break away from the hull without doing destruction to the actual hull which would allow water ingress.


Personally we did not agree with this and in consultation with marine surveyors in Cape Town decided to remove the panels on our brand new boat and glass in the the sides. On some 440’s where owners have not done this (outer bulkhead) the issue can be transferred to the main bulkhead base. The way to see this is if the boat is hauled to look very carefully between the hulls along the section where the bulkhead attaches above - if there are hairline cracks it indicates probable delamination.Hi Greg and Sue
It’s unfortunate that people are overstating the situation and pulling all Lagoons into the same box of bulkhead issues.
The 440 does have issues with the outer bulkhead usually found on the port side under bed base section against the outer wall.This was an issue we addressed when we bought the boat new as we knew this to be an issue.

Lagoon at the time suggested the reason for not glassing the outer bulkhead sections was so the bulkhead could break away from the hull without doing destruction to the actual hull which would allow water ingress.


Personally we did not agree with this and in consultation with marine surveyors in Cape Town decided to remove the panels on our brand new boat and glass in the the sides. On some 440’s where owners have not done this (outer bulkhead) the issue can be transferred to the main bulkhead base. The way to see this is if the boat is hauled to look very carefully between the hulls along the section where the bulkhead attaches above - if there are hairline cracks it indicates probable delamination.

The lagoon 440 is still a hugely sought after craft in the USA.I’d definitely be buying one today in good condition and would be the guy to strengthen the outer bulkhead -
It’s not such a big deal to do . If anyone is saying I’ve said it’s a big issue with the 440 -
Nope -
I just suggest folks do a mod to this section of boat.
The 440 is pretty bullet proof of one does the mod.
Don’t let anyone tell you I think the 440 isn’t a tough boat - it’s a lot tougher than most catamarans including new boats I know of.

We put this out 10 months ago after many people asked us about it - as mentioned we did the work when the boat was new - so for all these years through serious storms. This year because of the storm we went through I had the boat investigated in agreement with the insurers. We found 3 sections light in colour on the base of the bulkhead and decided to redo the entire thing as a precaution - this included building an additional section to the base and some ribs to the front ahead of it. I wouldn’t have done it if o weren’t going to keep sailing the boat for another 15 years or so.

Now there are sections I did not put in as they relate to the 450 and bare no correlation to the issue at hand. I believe that he storm Brent refers to was when they were caught out in large seas and winds to 80 knots on their return from Indonesia to Australia when Covid hit.

I have checked my bulkheads on our boat and we have no issues which is a late 2007 model. In saying that, if I was to undertake the adventure that Cat Impi has undertaken I would also do the modification purley as a safety precaution as Brent has quite rightly done. We have completed many thousands of sea miles on our Lagoon 440 sailing the east coast of Australia and I have the utmost faith in our vessel having weathered some very nasty seas and storms. I would like to personally thank Brent and Anna for being so upfront and forthcoming with this information and I hope it adds to everyones knowledge (including my own) and dispels any concerns some may have had.


Ozsailer
Lagoon 440
Oz

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Lagoon at the time suggested the reason for not glassing the outer bulkhead sections was so the bulkhead could break away from the hull without doing destruction to the actual hull which would allow water ingress.

Holy crap! Lagoon says that they design bulkheads--that hold up the mast--to be a preferential failure point in case of... something??? Even if Lagoon SAYS this I don't believe it. That would be an insane design solution. To a sailboat, mast integrity is damn near close to being as important as hull integrity.If you disagree, you have never been on a boat that has been dismasted. This is somebody trying to justify a bad choice after the fact.

Originally Posted by ozsailer

It’s unfortunate that people are overstating the situation and pulling all Lagoons into the same box of bulkhead issues.

I have looked at this thread really carefully and I don't see where ANYBODY has done this. I am sure there is somebody who has, somewhere, but that's a canard. It is clear that the 450 has a serious problem with it's bulkheads. Other Lagoons have certainly had other problems, but apparently bulkheads are not a brand-wide issue.

There are Lagoon fanboys with a large emotional and financial investment in the brand minimizing the issue, and a lot of people who are having an unhealthy, and unhelpful, amount of schadenfreude. The truth--as always--lies somewhere in the middle.

[owly]

It strikes me that there are "blue water" boats and "BLUE WATER" boats, and the Lagoons are "blue water" boats, not "BLUE WATER" boats. I suspect that caught in extreme conditions they would sustain structural damage. Nothing is indestructible, and everything has weak points. That doesn't mean they are unsafe or unsound, just that they should be operated within the original design parameters. Lagoons have sailed all over the world. This does not appear to be an uncommon problem, it depends on how the boat is used.

[smj]

In this video Cat Impi explains their Lagoon 440 is not a stock Lagoon. They say the 440 is advertised as a blue water boat but they don’t consider a stock 440 to be blue water capable. When first purchased they spent 18 months transforming her into a blue water cat including strengthening the structure. That was my take from the video, your miles may differ.

https://youtu.be/vxzd0d9z_6M

[owly]

Originally Posted by smj

In this video Cat Impi explains their Lagoon 440 is not a stock Lagoon. They say the 440 is advertised as a blue water boat but they don’t consider a stock 440 to be blue water capable. When first purchased they spent 18 months transforming her into a blue water cat including strengthening the structure. That was my take from the video, your miles may differ.

https://youtu.be/vxzd0d9z_6M

BLUE IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.... to paraphrase a popular saying... Some folks even consider Prouts "blue water boats"...... I don't with their narrow beam, water scoop / submarine plane bow, and zero bridge deck clearance... but they do not break!

[smj]

Originally Posted by owly

BLUE IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.... to paraphrase a popular saying... Some folks even consider Prouts "blue water boats"...... I don't with their narrow beam, water scoop / submarine plane bow, and zero bridge deck clearance... but they do not break!

We all have our ideas of what makes up a bluewater cat

[jmh2002]

Maybe a mod can edit ozsailor's post above please - it has repeated copy & pastes of the same paragraphs...

[ozsailer]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Maybe a mod can edit ozsailor's post above please - it has repeated copy & pastes of the same paragraphs...

Me Bad, as stated in my post "it was late" I would edit but even as the author it appears we will need someone from Admin to adjust.



Ozsailer
Lagoon 440.

[mike mck]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

The Lagoon was a badly Hurricane damaged vessel with a raft of issues caused by the Hurricane. If you watch the series of videos at no time does the owner, who is a very talented person at no time blames Lagoon for the issue. Colin contacted Lagoon for advice and is being supported in obtaining details on how to repair his boat and is in personal contact with the naval achitects who are assisiting him in his repairs. You cannot in any way shape of form blame Lagoon for the issue based on the boats history yet Lagoon is assisting with technical information. That does not sound like a company that leave people stranded.


Ozsailer
lagoon 440

Oz If Parlay were the only 45 Lagoon with this issue I would agree with your statement however there are multiple 45 Lagoons in the same yard in Panama with the same issue. This seems to eliminate the Hurricane theory and point to a design or manufacturing problem.
As to Colin not blaming Lagoon I would suggest if he did their cooperation would end and may create legal issues for both. He just wants to get his boat back on the water and continue his adventure. Blaming Lagoon will do nothing to advance that goal in the short term.
Just my 2cents.