Bali 4.0 - Owner's point of view

[jbinbi]

So QED, Bali 4.0 probably sails just as well as any other of the big 3 cruising cats.

[donradcliffe]

The Bali has design handicaps, like fatter hulls, more weight, and less sail area, so should have lower performance to weather than the big 3. What we are trying to do is quantify the difference in the real world. Not all sailing is done hard on the wind, so some Bali owners will be happy with the tradeoff between speed and features.

[HUFFnPUFF]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The Bali has design handicaps, like fatter hulls, more weight, and less sail area, so should have lower performance to weather than the big 3. What we are trying to do is quantify the difference in the real world. Not all sailing is done hard on the wind, so some Bali owners will be happy with the tradeoff between speed and features.

Actually, none of that is correct. Bali 4.0 comes in at 8.6 tons. LEOPARD 40 at 10 tons, lagoon 40 at 10.9 tons. The bali has 92m^2, lagoon has 81.3 m^2, and the Leopard 40 has 95m^2 sail area. And all three have the same hull width .

That gives the Bali a sa of 25.05 , leopard an sa of 22.07, and a lagoon has an sa of 16. So using your argument, Bali should outperform the other two.

FP has a displacement of 9.8 tons, sail area of 91 m^2 and an sa of 24.2.

Please don't quote what others say as it just propagates false info.

That said, I don't believe these numbers are the end all. I don't know which boat is faster and honestly, it really doesn't matter to me. If I wanted a performance condo, I would have picked a different boat. I picked this one, because we have 2 large dogs and it had the largest interior living area. I am posting my finds on this boat because there is a lot of hate for this boat and I just don't get why. All bali owners that I talk to love it. Many are repeat buyers when wanting to upgrade to larger boats.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by LAGERTHA

Glad Wandering responded (to Me) and since he asked, although not germane to this thread. I swapped my mono of 30 yrs for my Cat (Bali 4.1) because of the greater load carrying capacity, total off grid capabilities, general safety, and the multitude of redundancy and BTY…It sails better and is faster than my monohull. I also have to say, that sailing close haul and beating into the wind is not my preference, and moreover, most of us (and YES) on the Ocean will avoid sailing upwind whenever possible, just saying. (the vertebrate in my neck over the years still hurts). Who wants to state the obvious dude - beam, broad or downwind, is my preference. I did not buy our Bali for ultra performance. It doesn’t have carbon or daggerboards….we didn’t want that type of vessel, that was not our end game. It does however, have sails that you will not find on a Charter Cats. My Bali is not a Charter Cat. Apparently, wandering you lump every Bali or Charter Cat into that bucket or barge crap…that’s nonsense. Furthermore, wandering…somehow you believe that because you crossed the big pond (maybe) you now consider yourself an authority on catamarans and specifically Bali’s ??? Apparently, anyone who doesn’t throw out their nautical Bio…they are not credible in your eyes or they can’t make a contribution to this forum…you rudely call them out! You’ve been solo on a boat way too long man! Attached is a link to a more appropriate forum. Go harass them and see how far you sail in that forum.

Monohull Sailboats

Haha, home truths certainly got your back up!
Sorry to disappoint you but the multihull forum isn't your private club.
You have confirmed what I was saying. Don't sail up wind in a cruising cat. Turn the motors on. We both agree on that.
I understand that you get sensitive when somebody criticises your pride and joy, but man up. Its a cruel world.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

Actually, none of that is correct. Bali 4.0 comes in at 8.6 tons. LEOPARD 40 at 10 tons, lagoon 40 at 10.9 tons. The bali has 92m^2, lagoon has 81.3 m^2, and the Leopard 40 has 95m^2 sail area. And all three have the same hull width .

That gives the Bali a sa of 25.05 , leopard an sa of 22.07, and a lagoon has an sa of 16. So using your argument, Bali should outperform the other two.

FP has a displacement of 9.8 tons, sail area of 91 m^2 and an sa of 24.2.

Please don't quote what others say as it just propagates false info.

That said, I don't believe these numbers are the end all. I don't know which boat is faster and honestly, it really doesn't matter to me. If I wanted a performance condo, I would have picked a different boat. I picked this one, because we have 2 large dogs and it had the largest interior living area. I am posting my finds on this boat because there is a lot of hate for this boat and I just don't get why. All bali owners that I talk to love it. Many are repeat buyers when wanting to upgrade to larger boats.

Thanks for correcting the impression that the Bali is fatter and heavier than the competition. They all seem to be clones. I did try to compare the specs, but it is difficult to read through the "professional reviews".

For example "During 3.5 hours of the first watch, the catamaran covered 25 miles at a speed of 12-15 knots."

[Bullshooter]

HuffNPuff,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Are you able to share a track of your next sail? That would show the true result regarding tacking angle, taking into account the TWA, leeway, etc. It seems that would be helpful, especially if you could also show your plotter's TWA.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

For example "During 3.5 hours of the first watch, the catamaran covered 25 miles at a speed of 12-15 knots."

Something wrong with someone's maths or a log needs recalibrating - 25miles in 3.5 hours is a shade over 7 knots.

[HUFFnPUFF]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

HuffNPuff,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Are you able to share a track of your next sail? That would show the true result regarding tacking angle, taking into account the TWA, leeway, etc. It seems that would be helpful, especially if you could also show your plotter's TWA.

Happy to do so. I am curious myself about what angle will give me the greatest forward movement.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

Happy to do so. I am curious myself about what angle will give me the greatest forward movement.

Play with the polar calculator that I linked earlier. It’s interesting to see how much faster you have to go when bearing away to increase VMG - likely not possible for a cat like yours. So pinching up may be an answer, but then leeway becomes an issue.

Set your chartplotter to record your tracks, and/or use a phone app that records tracks (my screenshot was from iSailor). That gives you a visual representation of actual, averaged performance and eliminates the ‘highest speed photo’ syndrome.

[Bullshooter]

I searched in the App store on my iphone for iSailor. Would that be the Wartsila iSailor? It's the only one i found with a similar name.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

I searched in the App store on my iphone for iSailor. Would that be the Wartsila iSailor? It's the only one i found with a similar name.

Yes, that’s the one.

We’ve used it for six years and are pretty happy with it. Charts are relatively inexpensive and it has most of the features you’d expect. Wifi NMEA connectivity is simple. Since we run Navionics on our plotter and mostly C-Maps base map (and satellite charts) on OpenCPN it’s nice to have a different chart set on the phone app.

[HUFFnPUFF]

I have an axiom 15+, and for my phone, I use Garmins Navionics. Looks like I may have some good head wind next week. So will see how it goes.

[Tin Tin]

Set an Axiom screen to display all sailing info, TWA, TWS AWA AWS, Heading, COG, SOG, Water Speed, VMG (wind). Steer the boat to windward until VMG is at max and sail at that angle for a while. Take a video then steer 10-15 degrees higher and see what happens to VMG. Hopefully you will have TW of 12 - 15 knots for this exercise so less interference from waves.

[Bullshooter]

How does a phone app know what TWA etc. is without connection to wind gages?

Or, how is it connected?

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

How does a phone app know what TWA etc. is without connection to wind gages?

Or, how is it connected?

Phone app can get NMEA data on wifi hub in the boat. For example https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...en&gl=US&pli=1


and its website https://sail.expert/

If your plotter does not have a wifi hub inbuilt then a multiplexer can do the job

eg https://digitalyacht.com.au/product/wln30/


Or just video your boats instruments with the phone.