Ropes around the propeller winding the engine round (with the "stop" button on)

[jah]

We have had success freeing the line without the use of the engine. In our case, here were the important details:

1. we were motor sailing and had at least some wind that allowed us to proceed.
2. we were in gear and a floating line stopped the engine. The line was not attached to anything, so we could continue forward.
3. we have a Gori 3 blade folding prop (but when a line wraps around a prop, there's no real "folding" that's going to happen till the line is loosened).
4. we have convenient access to the prop shaft and engine coupling

When the line wrapped, we were unable to get the transmission in neutral with the shift lever, so we went below with a small prybar and were able to take enough tension off the transmission by turning the prop shaft slightly that allowed us to pop it in neutral.

We were able to continue sailing forward. We turned the prop shaft each direction as far as it would go and then backed up to find the "center" of this range. Water moving over the prop/line combined with turning the prop each direction and then back to the center gradually increased the range that we could turn the shaft each direction. We'd go back down and do this about every 5 to 10 minutes under sail.

In about an hour we were able to loosen up the line enough that the blades were starting to fold and eventually the ball of line slid free and we were off and running again.

I had done a similar thing with my 3 blade fixed prop previously. Essentially running the prop shaft forward/backward by hand under sail and got the line to free itself.

In cold water or less ideal conditions, this might work for you if you have time to be patient.

There's not much chance I'd ever use my engine starter to do this. A small flatbar or large screwdriver can give you all the leverage at the engine coupler you need to turn the shaft. If you can't budge it this way, you're likely to only do more damage using the starter.

Finally, with respect to the starter, you have to be very careful on most boats how much you turn over the engine without the engine actually running since turning the engine also turns the raw water cooling pump. This will fill your muffler after a while without the engine exhaust present to blow that water out. The water can back up over the exhaust elbow and into the cylinders causing hydro lock and damage.

-Jeff

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

You would be using the engine starter to turn the engine, transmission and prop which is much slower and easier to control.
If the engine started it wouldn’t be slow anymore and would most likely wrap the line around the prop in the other direction before you could stop it.

Quite possibly taking a finger or 2 with it !

[SSgtPitt]

What are my chances, better / worse of snagging a line with this type of full keel and the prop being where it is ?

[TrentePieds]

Better or worse than what?? :-)

Clearly a full-keeler has a far better chance of a stray line sliding under the keel and disappearing astern than has a fin-keeler. I have never thought, nor have I been convinced recently, that "cruiser/racers" have any merit for a cruising man. TP was dirt cheap. Had I been prepared to spend money, it woulda been on a full-keeler, because in an "old-fashioned" boat, i.e. a dedicated cruiser, it is so much easier to ensure the safety of the boat and the crew.

In a full-keeler it's always worthwhile to mount a "ramp" under the nether gudgeon/pintle specifically to close the gap twixt deadwood and rudder lest a stray line should find its way in between them.

In either kinda boat, if you see a line come near you, you will, of course, select "neutral", and coast by it on your forereach, before engaging the clutch again. The problem comes when you DON'T see the line :-)

Around here, floating Chlorox bottles scream "CRAB TRAP"!!! So we just don't go where they are :-)

TP

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by Captain Scott

Ran over a fish/lobster trap. The float hit the hull with three "thunks" before I got to neutral (much quicker than stopping the motor). No line to grab, in cold water. no mask or change of cloths. Pulled the fuel shut off, put it in reverse, cranked it, "Thunk" 3x and stopped. It floated away. Worked 1x. Always dive if you can. Sometimes it wraps weird...

The worst thing is drift or discarded nets. Not only do they get in a helluva tangle, but they are dangerous to dive on. Cut away as much as you can without going in the water, then be VERY careful. Risk losing a boathook rather than our life. They can bring you to a complete halt, whether round the prop, keel or rudder.

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

What are my chances, better / worse of snagging a line with this type of full keel and the prop being where it is ?

IMO, the most likely place to snag is the tip of the rudder, highly unlikely, esp if there is a faired shoe at the bottom.

[SSgtPitt]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Better or worse than what?? :-)

Clearly a full-keeler has a far better chance of a stray line sliding under the keel and disappearing astern than has a fin-keeler. I have never thought, nor have I been convinced recently, that "cruiser/racers" have any merit for a cruising man. TP was dirt cheap. Had I been prepared to spend money, it woulda been on a full-keeler, because in an "old-fashioned" boat, i.e. a dedicated cruiser, it is so much easier to ensure the safety of the boat and the crew.

In a full-keeler it's always worthwhile to mount a "ramp" under the nether gudgeon/pintle specifically to close the gap twixt deadwood and rudder lest a stray line should find its way in between them.

In either kinda boat, if you see a line come near you, you will, of course, select "neutral", and coast by it on your forereach, before engaging the clutch again. The problem comes when you DON'T see the line :-)

TP

Better or worse than other hull setups. We haven’t sailed outside of the Gulf of Mexico yet but getting lines caught around your prop or rudder seems to be an often discussed topic, so just wondering how my boat might fair in those situations.
Good tip on keeping a line from between the rudder and keel.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

Better or worse than other hull setups. We haven’t sailed outside of the Gulf of Mexico yet but getting lines caught around your prop or rudder seems to be an often discussed topic, so just wondering how my boat might fair in those situations.
Good tip on keeping a line from between the rudder and keel.

I would think a full keeled boat would be less likely. If that's yours and you sail the Gulf south, draft would be my concern more than warps. I like them with a keel hung rudder.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have only had to cut a line off of a powerboat, thankfully not my sailboat yet.
On my boat I think I can wedge myself between the rudder and keel, on the power Boat You couldn’t and it doesn’t take much wave action at all to be unsafe

Unsafe? And yet most people would consider it safe enough for a diver.


First, I cannot conceive of being a sailor if I was not also a strong swimmer and comfortable snorkeling. That would be like going into rock climbing with an unnatural fear of heights and aversion to risk.


Second, I've done this off shore and in rough water. Just pay attention. Certainly you should heave to or launch a drogue to stabilize the motion of the boat. Often just placing the rudder hard over is enough. This is obvious.


Finally, this is going to happen someplace inconvenient, possibly at night, and with cold water. Dangerous? Not if you think it through. In convenient? You'll have to deal with that, but mostly, it's just getting wet and a workout you probably needed. Bemindful of getting tangled, and cut away anything that can tangle you. No tool lanyards.



I just don't see why diving is a big deal. It's faster than all this frogging around, and you will be able to see if there is damage (very important). I see diving as basic seamanship, required to inspecting your boat and deal with many contingencies. It's just water.

[SSgtPitt]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I would think a full keeled boat would be less likely. If that's yours and you sail the Gulf south, draft would be my concern more than warps. I like them with a keel hung rudder.

Yup, that’s mine. Wife made the carving for me. It’s a 5’ draft. So far I’ve only rubbed the mud once...knock on wood....when I missed the main entrance into a part of the MS River.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "Better or worse than other hull setups"

There are only the two kinds :-): Full-keel and fin-keel. There are variations on each theme, but as far as picking up detritus is concerned, there are only the two.

Fin-keelers REPUTEDLY and (in theory) will sail closer to the wind. That is why they are favoured as racing machines. The bastardized cruiser/racer is a marketing man's delusion, but forty-fifty years ago when everyman and his cousin "needed" a sailboat, that is what was produced, because the "cruising market" was diminutive. And besides - FULL-keelers are so easy to handle that they become BORING to sail :-). In consequence, what predominates in the second-hand market is cruiser/racers with fin keels and spade rudders.

There are (a few) "production" full-keelers being made today, but they sell to people who have enuff experience to know that that is what they want, and, conversely, enuff experience to know that for a CRUISER it ain't a fin-keeler they want. If some cruisers do racing on the side, that's great, but that takes a different kinda boat.

You will be told that full-keelers are not very maneuverable and difficult to handle in marinas. Quite true, since in marina's you are cheek by jowl with Lord knows how many boats that are jammed tightly into their parking spaces. But there are ways to handle that. If your objective is cruising, i.e. going places, why then let your choice of boat be influenced too heavily by a fairly trivial consideration such as ease of getting into a slip a few times a year.

You will be told that a "modern" fin-keeled masthead sloop will go "better to weather" than, say, a cutter, let alone a gaff ketch. Absolutely true! The sloop might hold 4 points off the wind on flat water.. The ketch, 5 or 5 1/2. But why should that be important if you spend 90% of your time with the wind on the beam or further aft? If that's what you are doing, the ketch, IMO, is so much more pleasant to be in. And NOTHING goes to weather like 1,500 RPM :-)!

To come back to the fouled prop: It think the Cape Dory you depict is an excellent design. and so, I know, do many others on this forum. She would be relatively proof against feral lines and she would be a really well-mannered cruising boat.

TP

[charliehows]

I noticed a couple of navy deflatables recently with steel ring cages forward of the prop - anyone ever tried running something like that on a sailboat? Only disadvantage i can see would be a little bit more stuff dragging in the water, but it might keep ropes and debris clear of the prop...

[Cadence]

A caged prop is not uncommon with some commercial boats.

[Jim Cate]

Re post 56 above:

I must apologize to all you real cruisers who follow this belief, for I didn't know that I was being bad by sailing for 30+ years and ~140,000 miles in fin keeled boats.

I sure wish that I'd had TP as a mentor, one who would help me avoid this possibly fatal mistake.

Seriously, TP, the VAST majority of boats who are out cruising are fin keels of one sort or another. We see them in remote anchorages all the time. Your doom crying is kinda over the top IMO.

Traditional long keels have some advantages, and plenty of good voyages have been made in such boats. But, fin keels have their advantages too, and I'd bet that nowadays FAR more miles are successfully accomplished in fin keeled boats than in traditional designs.

Supporting the use of traditional shapes for cruising is all very well, but diatribes like your post, with their somewhat biased warnings, do not benefit the aspiring cruiser.

And BTW, in all those miles and years, we've gotten exactly one line around our prop: my own dinghy painter, before I discovered the benefit of a floating line in that application. I was able to quickly free it at sea by diving while hove to.

Jim

[TrentePieds]

@ #57

Never seen it on a sailboat, but it's common enuff on smaller commercial vessels - small tugs, fishing vessels - here in the Salish Sea. Given the nature of our shores and of our economy, we have a lot of detritus floating about, including fairly large lumps of wood. These things can do a lot of costly damage to a propeller. We have a number of large water taxies/mini-ferries and they use the cages as a means of avoiding down-time with consequent loss of revenue. Many island dwellers rely on these boats for their daily transportation, so the cages are popular with the operators of these boats.

I don't see that they would have merit on a sailboat. We are not moving at 30 knots, and we don't have props of 30" diameter and more. Hitting a deadhead or any other debris is very rare if you keep you eyes open. And even if you don't, at 4 knots, unless you hit a large deadhead square on, chunks of wood are generally pushed aside with no damage. "Stuff" with lines attached are not really a problem unless your prop is turning. When you see it, disengage your clutch and slide by on the forereach.

TP.