A nice little 56v/100amp single cylinder Diesel DC genset

[Jim Jones]

I came across and thought others here might find this interesting.

Its a single cylinder Hatz DC Genset - sells for approx $7000 USD. It has a Flywheel integrated PMG alternator - from the factory - no after marker shenanigans here ! (and its not pointed at the marine market so price is reasonable). Compare this to your Panda Fischers and others like it.

At 100% load it runs at 3000RPM and gives out 100 amps at 56v. At 3/4 load (where a genset should be run) it runs at 2300rpm and sips 1.2 litres of diesel - pretty frugal ! At 2300 RPM its putting out 75 amps @56v.

It is J1939 equipped so all the sensors needed are onboard from the factory to be able to monitor the genset. It can communicate with the outside world so can be monitored remotely and is ready for the IOT (Internet of things).

Best part ? I came across a company in the USA who says in thier brochure that it can talk too and be controlled by a Victron Cerbo using CAN.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...f?v=1696344804

[Jim Jones]

particularly, look at the dimensions - this thing is tiny for a genset !

331 x 410 x 430mm
13.03 x 15.14 x 16.93in

[Statistical]

too bad it isn't liquid cooled. Air cooled is going to be terribly loud even compared to other generators. If it was liquid cooled would be reasonably easy to modify it for marine use and put it in a sound insulated engine compartment.

That price is amazing though. Might be useful as a backup power source for a medium sized EP boat. Even if noisy it would have a relatively low duty cycle.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by Statistical

too bad it isn't liquid cooled. Air cooled is going to be terribly loud even compared to other generators. If it was liquid cooled would be reasonably easy to modify it for marine use and put it in a sound insulated engine compartment.

That price is amazing though. Might be useful as a backup power source for a medium sized EP boat. Even if noisy it would have a relatively low duty cycle.

I wonder if it can replace an engine in an engine bay? A blower pushing air in and a exhaust fan pulling air out? Would it be any worse then the ICE already in there ?

Biggest issue I see is if its mounted in an engine bay is getting the exhaust gas out. Perhaps a custom made exhaust system ? But it would then be like a car exhaust and be very hot - maybe a heat resistant wrapping around the exhaust ? Dont know but its interesting for sure.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Biggest issue I see is if its mounted in an engine bay is getting the exhaust gas out. Perhaps a custom made exhaust system ? But it would then be like a car exhaust and be very hot - maybe a heat resistant wrapping around the exhaust ? Dont know but its interesting for sure.

Yeah that is the big challenge. Despite all the problems caused by wet exhaust it really does simplify placement of the engine and running exhaust lines.

In theory you could maybe adapt it to be air cooled but still have a wet exhaust. It would require someone who isn't afraid of some DIY fun.

The other option given its small size would be to convert a lazarette into a "generator bay" of sorts and with blower for air and straight hot exhaust pipe out the transom.

The thing is going to be loud though so I think the quality of life will depend on the duty cycle. If you are running this 3 hours a day everyday that would get old but as a way to boost electric propulsion range in a contingency or occassional top up batteries in a large LFP bank setup it could be interesting.

[Jim Jones]

agree.

The lazarette solution is interesting. Could always add thick sound proofing ?

Could the exhaust be wrapped with some sort of heat blanket ( I have some that stop 1200 degree c heat getting through). I was considering some of this blanket to put under LiFePo4 batteries in case they ever caught fire to stop them burning straight through the bottom of the hull.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

agree.

The lazarette solution is interesting. Could always add thick sound proofing ?

Could the exhaust be wrapped with some sort of heat blanket ( I have some that stop 1200 degree c heat getting through). I was considering some of this blanket to put under LiFePo4 batteries in case they ever caught fire to stop them burning straight through the bottom of the hull.

There is dry exhaust tubing which is insulated but it tends to be very thick so is rarely used in sailboats just due to the space and routing required. It tends to be more common on trawlers and workboats though.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

agree.

The lazarette solution is interesting. Could always add thick sound proofing ?

Could the exhaust be wrapped with some sort of heat blanket ( I have some that stop 1200 degree c heat getting through). I was considering some of this blanket to put under LiFePo4 batteries in case they ever caught fire to stop them burning straight through the bottom of the hull.

Don't worry about that. Look here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzt9RZ0FQyM&t=321s

[fxykty]

The higher cost of marine gensets isn’t just in the ‘marine’ markup, much of it is in taking a dry land component and making it suitable for a marine installation. In this case, a sound insulation cover, liquid cooling and wet exhaust. Without those things, you’ve got a really noisy generator running at relatively high rpm and pushing out poisonous exhaust gasses into the air, where they can eddy back into living spaces. It would be difficult to run it while underway and a nuisance to your neighbours when anchored. But hey, if you can make it work it’s a reasonable alternative. At 56V pretty much only for the EP and hybrid folks.

[Jim Jones]

yes its quite the dilemma - how to charge a sizeable battery bank onboard;

Solar - we are terribly restricted on a sail boat - shading is a big problem on a sail boat

Alternator on main engine - load of issues requiring controllers, custom brackets/pulley's/high airflow to keep it a bit cooler for performance

Genset - high cost/space issues/noise

what is the answer ? seems nothing easy.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The higher cost of marine gensets isn’t just in the ‘marine’ markup, much of it is in taking a dry land component and making it suitable for a marine installation. In this case, a sound insulation cover, liquid cooling and wet exhaust. Without those things, you’ve got a really noisy generator running at relatively high rpm and pushing out poisonous exhaust gasses into the air, where they can eddy back into living spaces. It would be difficult to run it while underway and a nuisance to your neighbours when anchored. But hey, if you can make it work it’s a reasonable alternative. At 56V pretty much only for the EP and hybrid folks.

There is a 24vnom version in addition to the 48vnom version. Both DC versions have the choice of 100amp and 55amp outputs - so can get a model close to ones needs (why run a big genset if your loads are low?) There are also 230v AND 120v versions at 3Kw delivered.

So not just for EP and hybrid. It is a sweet little machine as far as DC Gensets go.

" This inverter takes the 3-phase power and turns it into a new output with the exact voltage and frequency characteristics we want. The advantages of this topology are many, but the main benefit is that by decoupling the engine speed from the output using the inverter module, you can have a variable-speed engine."

So the engine RPM goes up and down according to load. So if charging a LiFePo4 battery bank that is almost flat this little genny will run at full speed. If one is powering smaller loads then the RPM's drop off to much lower RPM's - so not a traditional diesel genset by any means.

Having all the sensors on a J1939 CAN BUSS and being able to connect this genny to the Internet is special as well.

All in all I like it. I need a way to get amps into my LiFePo4's and a DC genset and especially a PMG genset is a the most efficient way to do it (if using a genset to charge batteries). the diminutive size is a big help in finding a spot on the boat for it.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

yes its quite the dilemma - how to charge a sizeable battery bank onboard;

Solar - we are terribly restricted on a sail boat - shading is a big problem on a sail boat

Alternator on main engine - load of issues requiring controllers, custom brackets/pulley's/high airflow to keep it a bit cooler for performance

Genset - high cost/space issues/noise

what is the answer ? seems nothing easy.

Now a big alternator on the auxiliary engine, Kim danbald here sells a 300A 12V watercooled alternator incl. all for 2k.
Or for 24V simply take a schoolbus-alternator 70-100A and a external regulator.

Genset if then gas powered Mobil one as backup, instead Honda I have the maxingrod 3500W one, was 500 bucks. Semipermanent installed in a box at the stern next to liferaft and exhaust rooted underneath bridgedeck and with an externder kit I simply connect the outboard tank to it when I need it.

[Jammer]

That's a variation of a military set that's been on the market for a while. The controls are new and I think the engine is different. I think the design offers some interesting tradeoffs. As you point out, it is not marinized (air cooling/dry exhaust).

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Compare this to your Panda Fischers and others like it.

Anything more sophisticated than a hand crank generator is an improvement over the F-P.

At 100% load it runs at 3000RPM and gives out 100 amps at 56v. At 3/4 load (where a genset should be run) it runs at 2300rpm and sips 1.2 litres of diesel - pretty frugal ! At 2300 RPM its putting out 75 amps @56v.

Some math gives us 13.2 kwh/gallon. 10 kwh/gallon is fairly typical for small AC marine gensets, so yes, that's quite good.

[RaymondR]

The voltage problem is easy to solve, just wire it in parallel with the solar panels into a high enough ampage rated MPPT solar controller.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Yeah that is the big challenge. Despite all the problems caused by wet exhaust it really does simplify placement of the engine and running exhaust lines.

In theory you could maybe adapt it to be air cooled but still have a wet exhaust. It would require someone who isn't afraid of some DIY fun.

The other option given its small size would be to convert a lazarette into a "generator bay" of sorts and with blower for air and straight hot exhaust pipe out the transom.

The thing is going to be loud though so I think the quality of life will depend on the duty cycle. If you are running this 3 hours a day everyday that would get old but as a way to boost electric propulsion range in a contingency or occassional top up batteries in a large LFP bank setup it could be interesting.

So, it’s just getting the exhaust heat out? Really is it?
Have you ever designed a Generator bay and tested and evaluated it?

Some of the issues you might face.
to get an LL100 Yanmar single cylinder below 89db, took months admittedly was doing that without the addition of any additional fans, and had to pass internal testing, no outside influences, but we wanted to be fully compliant, so started by testing other products in the market, only to find issues with everyone we tested, would not have passed. So we were not the first to try.

So what issues did we face, well an alternator that small has no winding temperature sensors so how would you know if you were about to burn it out? Then you have.
Exhaust heat
Exhaust noise
Exhaust exit noise (not the same as exhaust noise)
Engine noise
Engine heat
Engine intake temperature, every 1C extra in is 3C extra coming out.
Oil Temperature. This is critical to measure if you intend to box up an engine, you can buy sensors to shutoff the engine on oil temp and some of the products tested actually had these fitted, so that when used at full load they cut out.
Vibration and fatigue, leading to broken fixings.
I don’t think it applies to these Hatz PMG Generators but often you will find alternators on small single cylinder diesels with screws holding 2 aluminium ends together with the stator in the middle and a thin steel cover to make it look pretty - these almost always fail, the vibration of a single cylinder diesel really requires a full alternator casing.

I have experience of a Hatz single cylinder with PMG, used by the military. Although a lot of that was making sure each one was completely identical, so for instance if a cable tie was used it would have been put on the same way, put it the other way and they all get rejected. and then you have 300 to rework.

For a little practical help you need to put the exhaust in a duct and blow air through the duct. The airflow will carry the heat away but also bring noise.with it.

You should decide how to test it and what the pass / fail criteria is before starting as this will stop you explaining away issues by changing the testing.
Minimum run time to check the installation is 4 hours at full load on a warm day.